End of Spanish civil war (Full Version)

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Per Hallgren -> End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 1 2007 18:07:36)

Yesterday I rented a movie together with my son. A Spanish movie called "El labyrinteo de Pan" or something similar. What the movie is about doesn't matter except that it was 1944 and the Spanish army was still attacked by armed gerilla groups hiding in the mountains. In school I learned that the civil war ended in 1939, so my question is if this movie were making things up or if the conflict continued for years after the official ending in 1939? Does anyone know?



Tomás Jiménez -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 2 2007 0:12:12)

I w



Per Hallgren -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 2 2007 12:26:00)

Thank you Tomás for your reply. It is an interesting thought that the history always is written by the victorious and maybe that is the explanation why we don't know much about the eventual extended fighting after the official end of the civil war. Good to hear about you and your friend. I think that is the spirit to move on and make progress. As Nelson Mandela for example.



Stu -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 2 2007 17:11:46)

I think this was accurate. Although the war was officially over there were still rebels fighting to topple the dictatorship.

Did you enjoy the movie??



Per Hallgren -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 2 2007 18:02:46)

Yes, I enjoyed the movie. It is a fascinating mix of the brutal reality of the adults in a post/on going civil war and the fantasy world of a child trying to cope with this brutal world of the adults. All is told in a poetic style, well played, nice photo etc. Only objection is that it was a little too scary brutal to my eleven year old son, but that was my misjudgement letting him see it.

I was very surprised by my own ignorance when I started to understand/suspect that my view of the civil war was too brief and that it is never as black and white as it is told in the school books. I would be interested to know more about the post war period if anyone care to tell. I don't want to stir alive old conflicts among spaniards so please be cautious.



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Stu -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 2 2007 18:43:48)

Hey per, Glad to hear you liked it.
Its one of my favourites!

I have to agree, that its not exactly suitable for younger folks. I was even shocked by some of the really brutal bits. I do however think they were necessary to give a greater contrast with the fantasy, escapist realm of the young girl.
I have heard alot of people say how they were expecting something quite different from the dark and rather upsetting piece they actually saw. Think they were expecting more "Labyrinth" (with David Bowie)

Romerito, yeah check this film out. put it up the top of your list. US/English name is "Pans Labyrinth"



Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 2 2007 18:46:49)

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Ron.M -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 2 2007 21:41:06)

quote:

So is it really an Spanish move, or just Spanish subject matter.

It seemed that the budget was more Hollywood, due to costuming and set.

Anyway, I will check it out.


If Mel Gibson is in it then I'd doubt the historical accuracy myself...[:D]

cheers,

Ron



Pimientito -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 3 2007 0:05:48)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manzmann
Although the war was officially over there were still rebels fighting to topple the dictatorship.


Thats basically correct. Those rebels would be called insurgents today. Finally conflict ended because everyone agreed that a dictator was better than returning to civil war again. The movie is called Pans labyrinth in English and has won prizes including a Goya (spanish film award). One of the best books on the background to the Spanish civil war is still "The Spanish labyrinth" by Gerald Brennan (think there is a coincidence?...Hmmm)

This movie has been contraversial because it graphically highlights the brutality of fascism and totalitarian states.

Not really wanting to make too much political view here but there is a danger that forgetting the past allows it to repeat itself. Many Spanish people want to forget the horror of those times but I think it is important those times are never forgotten. Lorca was murdered at the hands of fascists. Even today one cannot publically discuss topics such as the black guard in Granada without lowering your voice. We enjoy a level of free speech, liberty and democracy in Spain that exists in very few places in the world. We have to ensure those dark times never return. That's why it is vital we remember what happened and why.



Stu -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 3 2007 0:08:27)

Yeah its Spanish, with subtitles. directed by Guillermo Del Toro.
& yes its pretty lavish in parts particularly the fantasy bits, but its far from "hollywood"
in content and presentation.



Ailsa -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 3 2007 0:31:11)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manzmann
I was even shocked by some of the really brutal bits. I do however think they were necessary to give a greater contrast with the fantasy, escapist realm of the young girl.

Hey Stu, I read some amazing reviews of this film and really wanted to see it, but then was put off by reports of how shocking the violence was. Reading your posts I'm tempted to rent it anyway. Might need to watch from behind the sofa tho........



Stu -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 3 2007 0:37:40)

Hey ailsa, yeah please watch it.
There are only a couple of nasty bits. And only one that is particularly shocking and stayed with me for a while after watching. theres also a lot of beautiful moments in there too that I remember more. (however its not exactly feel good, its quite sad)

Hey pimientito, think I must have posted my last post at exactly the sam time as you. so sorry if it looks like I answered the same question as you did.



Estevan -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 3 2007 4:36:53)

quote:

What the movie is about doesn't matter except that it was 1944 and the Spanish army was still attacked by armed gerilla groups hiding in the mountains.


There's an excellent book by Giles Tremlett entitled "Ghosts of Spain - travels through a country's hidden past". It talks about the way that modern history has influenced various aspects of Spanish society. There's even a chapter on flamenco.

The first four chapters are about the legacy of the civil war. He mentions a "maquis guerilla movement that, briefly and to no great effect, acted across much of Spain in the 1940s and early 1950s."



Pimientito -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 3 2007 11:36:41)

This guy is my favourite!!!![:D]



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Stu -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 3 2007 21:14:17)

Me too man!! That whole bit with him is awesome!
Dont wanna give too much away for those that havent watched it yet.



Kate -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 11 2007 4:21:15)

By coincedence I just read an article about a book soon to be published written by David Baird and called "Between Two fires - Guerilla war in the sierras of Spain"

According to his research there were more than 100,000 anti Franco guerillas operating up until the early 50's, out of them more than 5,000 died or were imprisoned, none of which was reported in the media which was controlled by Franco.
There were 6 groups throughout Spain but the largest and most important ( due its distance from the French border and proximity to North Africa) were operating in Andalucia in the Sierra Mountains.

Kate



Ailsa -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 21 2007 21:47:32)

Hey guys, just wanted to say thanks for the recommendation. It was an extraordinary movie - a really unusual mix of brutality and fairy-tale. I'm glad I decided to watch it despite the gruesome bits, and in fact it wasn't as bad as I feared.

Although it had a particularly setting, I sort of wondered whether that level of brutality is just common to any war. I've seen similar scenes in movies about the second world war.

Thought the little girl was fabulous - so unpretentious. And my favourite was Mercedes - what a strong woman. So beautiful.

quote:

Original: Estevan

Giles Tremlett entitled "Ghosts of Spain - travels through a country's hidden past"


Thanks for this recommendation too Estevan - I've just got it - will share my thoughts on it soon![:)]

A



Kate -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 24 2007 7:59:23)

Here's an essay by George Orwell I found online talking about his experiences in the Spanish Civil War
http://www.george-orwell.org/Looking_Back_On_The_Spanish_War/0.html

Kate



Ailsa -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 24 2007 8:32:09)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kate

Here's an essay by George Orwell I found online

That was really interesting, and fitted well with the book I'm reading at the moment, which is about how the after-effects of the civil war still affect Spanish culture today.

@ all London based foro members: At the end of the article Kate posted was a link to a festival of Spanish film at the British Film Institute in January, called Spain uncensored:

http://www.bfi.org.uk/whatson/bfi_southbank/film_programme/january_seasons/spain_un_censored

My Spanish tutor in Granada recommended one of these films, Bienvenido Mr Marshall, and I've been searching for it ever since, so I'm going to try and get along.



Kate -> RE: End of Spanish civil war (Dec. 24 2007 8:40:42)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ailsa
My Spanish tutor in Granada recommended one of these films, Bienvenido Mr Marshall, and I've been searching for it ever since, so I'm going to try and get along.


That's a great movie, very funny, I studied it a University. If you cant find it I am sure I can get it here for you.

Kate



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