Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Full Version)

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frhout -> Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Nov. 26 2007 20:45:16)

I'm trying to have some extra knowledge regarding guitars with different scale lengths just in case I want to buy a new guitar.

I've always been playing guitars with a 650mm scale length. Would there be any difference in feel and problems regarding finger stretching if I decide to have a 655mm scale length? How are the extra 5mm placed? My height is 1m70 (5'8"). I'm just a little worried about the finger placement. Anybody got any idea about Paco Pena's guitars scale length, as he is not particularly tall.

Thanks for any insight.



Tomás Jiménez -> RE: Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Nov. 26 2007 21:13:12)

Hola,

No problem at all.

Paco Peña plays Gerundino. I also have some guitars of Gerundino and I have played guitars of Paco Peña. My guitars of Gerundino are very comfortable to play and also those of Paco I played very easy also.


More recently I bought a guitar of Pablo Requena. Pablo tells me it is long but I never measure it nor the Gerundino. It does not make any difference. If Pablo wouldn’t tell me I wouldn’t know.
Also he showed to me recently a guitar made even longer he said and I can not feel anything different at all.

I am very short and very little hands.

If the guitar feels good then it does not matter about the mathematics. That is the problem of the guitarrero but we the guitarists we don’t care.


Saludos cordiales,


Tomás



Ramirez -> RE: Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Nov. 26 2007 21:39:42)

Hi,

I'd always played with a 650 scale length. However, this year I bought a Pedro de Miguel Negra with 660 scale length. To be perfectly honest the difference in feel is minimal - sure it felt a little different - actually slightly easier to play when you use a capo.

If you think about the difference in length you're talking about will only be half a centimetre across the whole guitar! So even if does feel different you'll soon get used to it.

When I ever I pick my 650 neck the guitar feel different. No better, no worse JUST DIFFERENT! If I played it all the time I'd soon get used to it again!

Hope that helps...



itoprover -> RE: Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Nov. 26 2007 22:14:13)

650 and 655 feel a little different (string tension on 655 is slightly higher and you can feel very minimal difference when playing stretchy(5 frets) chords with no capo or with capo on 1st) but this is not the main factor for me when deciding to purchase a guitar. If I would have to choose between 650 and 655 and both of them would have exactly the same tone and volume i would go for 650 (same thing when comissioning guitars).



Ricardo -> RE: Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Nov. 27 2007 4:23:37)

I have one guitar 651 (measured from nut to bone along the string), and another that is 664. I NEVER new they were different UNTIL i measured them. In fact, the 650 felt bigger, but it was my imagination. Now I am aware because I measured, but hopefully you understand my point. Some easy guitars I always assume were so because they were smaller, but after measuring, I still get surprised. The number 1 factor in the left hand ease or tension is due to the action set up. A 648 guitar with high action might feel tighter than a 671 with a very low set up. You WILL become aware of the difference only when stretching in the first postion to as far as you can go. But like I said, you might still "trick me" when the action thing comes into play.

OH, I did notice that the guitar with 650 vs 664, the head stocks and nuts are almost equal. Where the physical difference is is the Bridge is closer to the soundhole (smaller space between bridge and soundhole, more space behind bridge to the bottom end) on the 650. Hope that makes sense.

Ricardo



itoprover -> RE: Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Nov. 27 2007 8:12:54)

quote:

The number 1 factor in the left hand ease or tension is due to the action set up.


This is 100% true - right now I have a dilemma: I raised the action on my guitar (655mm scale BTW) about a week ago and my left hand is still not quite comfortable with this - should I try to get used to it or should I lower the action a little?What do you guys think?



frhout -> RE: Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Nov. 27 2007 13:50:03)

Dear all

Thanks for all the input. That will put my mind at ease when I can afford to buy a new guitar. I can then worry more about a cypress or a negra. I have at the moment a handmade numbered blanca and an apprenticed-made negra, both 650mm by Rafael Romero.



Ricardo -> RE: Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Nov. 27 2007 16:06:11)

quote:

ORIGINAL: itoprover

quote:

The number 1 factor in the left hand ease or tension is due to the action set up.


This is 100% true - right now I have a dilemma: I raised the action on my guitar (655mm scale BTW) about a week ago and my left hand is still not quite comfortable with this - should I try to get used to it or should I lower the action a little?What do you guys think?


I depends WHY you raised the action in the first place. If it is because of the sound, and you MUCH prefer the sound you are getting now, then you will have to get used to it. IMO a TINY bit of lowering the action affects the left hand feel WAY more than you notice a sound problem. But it depends. There is a perfect set up for anyone, you just need to experiment a little.



itoprover -> RE: Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Nov. 27 2007 17:03:19)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
I depends WHY you raised the action in the first place.

Oh, I did it because I wanted to boost the volume of the guitar because it was too quite for dance classes and restaurant where I play.



Ricardo -> RE: Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Nov. 28 2007 0:43:05)

quote:

ORIGINAL: itoprover

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
I depends WHY you raised the action in the first place.

Oh, I did it because I wanted to boost the volume of the guitar because it was too quite for dance classes and restaurant where I play.

[&o] Well, understand boosting volume in those situations is a problem of "orders of magnitude". [:D] The loudest guitar on earth won't kill LOUD TALKING of many people, or loud stomping and clapping and singing. Even if all you do is strum hard as hell. If you were playing in concert halls only, with hushed audience paying attention, it might be a little bit noticeable if raise the bone to get some volume. The guitar is an intimate instrument, always was and always will be. Put the action where it makes you feel comfortable playing, not too low so the strings fret out, and not too high of course. Then buy a mic,PA, and GOOD speaker. It is worth it if you want to be heard, REALLY. Higher action won't make THAT big a difference.

I have been in situations were we went acoustic only because PA at lowest setting was too loud, but you will know when that will be. In the mean time, dont' make life tough on yourself!



frhout -> RE: Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Nov. 28 2007 21:39:20)

Just one extra question. For what reason(s) or criteria guitarreros decide to make 650, 655 or 660mm guitars.



n85ae -> RE: Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Nov. 28 2007 22:13:06)

I'm certainly not an expert, but I think it makes the fretboard more user friendly
if the guitar is capo'd a lot when you have the longer scale like 660. Less
cramped feeling. Plus you get a longer length string vibrating at the same
frequency which I would think relays more energy into the guitar top.

I've got a Pedro De Miguel with a 660 scale and it does feel a bit more open
when capo'd than my Yamaha which is a 650 scale. One thing I can say for sure
is that both guitars without capo, with the size hands I have there are a
couple things I can play on the Yamaha with the shorter length that I simply
cannot play on the PdM. However when the PdM is capo'd then I can make
the same reach. A good example is holding 6 string first fret, and 1st string
fifth fret at the same time

Jeff



DoctorX2k2 -> RE: Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Nov. 28 2007 22:37:20)

According to Fitz's law in Mouvement research, bigger frets would be easier to play, especially when capo'd.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Nov. 29 2007 10:40:18)

quote:

Just one extra question. For what reason(s) or criteria guitarreros decide to make 650, 655 or 660mm guitars.


Because their clients think that a certain scale length is important.[8D]

If someone is very small. I recommend 650mm and if someone is very big, I recommend a 660mm

When I build a guitar which is not an order, I build 655mm. This way everyone can adjust and be happy. (Dont worry, be happy)



frhout -> RE: Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Nov. 29 2007 10:53:11)

I think I can conclude that after all, the scale length is not too important if the person is of average height, although I would have liked my fingers to have an extra 3mm! Now it's the time to save money. Thanks for all the replies.



itoprover -> RE: Guitars with 650 and 655mm (Dec. 12 2007 5:33:27)

quote:


I have been in situations were we went acoustic only because PA at lowest setting was too loud, but you will know when that will be. In the mean time, dont' make life tough on yourself!

Thanks Ricardo, I already got used to a higher action - it was only a matter of couple of weeks.. Now medium tension strings seem too loose to me :)



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