Ricardo -> RE: Tanguillos (Oct. 17 2007 3:35:55)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: romerito quote:
Anyone that is a percussionist that reads meters and feels synchopation well, would never suggest 3/4 for Tanguillos, nor 12/8 for bulerias. The math works but the feeling does not. With all due respect, I beg to differ. The most important thing to remember is that many palos are polyrhythmic. If you choose to discount or ignore 3/4 as a possible time that is OK but don't present it as fact, especially using another instrument (percussion) to support your argument. There are many people who believe that due to the matices a 3/4 time signature is played or implied. The math and the feeling work. Polyrhythmic sure. Polymetric might happen in flamenco too sometimes. But stripped down to the base I think it is important to not confuse synchopation with a brand new take on the meter. I use percussionISTS to support my point because they are typically more adept at reading meters and focus on the feeling that is implied by a time signature vs what interesting polyrhythmic things might be going on with the subdivisions (compared to guitar players I mean, who often do weird things with transcriptions interms of meter). If we all lock in to only the head beat of Tanguillo, sure you can feel 3/4 and I can feel 6/8 and we always will be together. But IMO it is REAL important to understand the up beats feeling because that is where everything is happening in the music. If you feel a quater note as the beat, but I feel the dotted quater as the beat, even though the 8ths are even, we are not feeling the same groove. And again shifiting into the 2/4 is going to feel really weird if you have to do it and you were feeling 3/4 instead of 6/8 earlier. You CAN do it that way, but is just...wrong, I don't know any other way to say it. And harder than it should be also. Look man, in bulerias you can do those ami arps that are synchopated against the palmas, but keep going and change the palmas so it feels like they were triplets, then BAM you are doing tangos. But if you dont' don't change the palmas, you are not changing meter. If you do it as a solo with no palmas, but YOU and you alone change into triplets por tangos, simply by feeling it that way, you ARE changing the meter also. And that is the point I am trying to make. If you change meter THAT way (as implied by imposing 3/4 Tanguillo) you are changing the fundamental base of the rhythm so it is no longer the rhythm you started with. And sure you CAN do that. But the point is once you change meter that way, you no longer have the same compas, even though the math is the same. Feeling and math are not the same things. In bulerias there are times you will see folks taping the foot different from one another, or a change of the foot tap. Those are meter changes for sure, and yeah one guy feels one meter and the other guy a different meter and it is fine. But for rumba/tangos/tientos/tanguillo, no. The palmas and beat are not flexable the same way. Tanguillo is especially important because if you lose the two beat when doing triplet feel, then you lose the coolness of the up beat accent. I becomes ON the beat and no longer relates to tangos. Just think about this. You can play a fandango falseta at about the same speed as Tanguillo, but why is it that they feel different? (Ignoring any strumming of compas). Same goes for Solea por bulerias falseta. You could do a falseta of fandango in Solea por bulerias without changing the feeling much, but put it in Tanguillo it is like a different world. Well I could go on forever say the same boring stuff, but you get what I mean I hope.
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