Solea Arpeggio's (Full Version)

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n85ae -> Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 6 2007 19:54:12)

What's the proper way to roll off those quick little arpeggio's in a
Solea that you hear all the time?

For example

-----0
---0--0
--1----1
-2------3

Thanks,
Jeff



XXX -> RE: Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 6 2007 19:57:45)

Its just pimamip. No magic.
?

You just need a good "p-i" technique for it. Say, they shouldnt hinder or even touch each other during playing. You can stick out p for that, or try to find a different stroke angle for i.



Matic -> RE: Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 6 2007 20:01:48)

pimamip (as Deniz said with the last F with thumb)


...oops, you already rewrote...[:D][;)]



Ailsa -> RE: Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 6 2007 20:04:16)

Matic have you done your falseta for the group jam? No more posting til you sent it to Gabe! [;)][;)][:D][:D]

Just kidding M. You can post if you like.[:)]



Doitsujin -> RE: Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 6 2007 20:48:33)

Here you see some basic arpegios:

http://www.planet-wissen.de/pw/realpopup_dsl,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,tempx_flamenco_gitarre_h.rm,,,.html



n85ae -> RE: Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 6 2007 20:52:02)

Yeah, I have been practicing some of the examples from Manuel Granados
and can play them, and they even sound decent. But there's a quickness to
them in the audio examples that made me think there might be some
"magic" technique I'm lacking. Beyond the years of practice part that is :)

Jeff



Guest -> [Deleted] (Sep. 6 2007 21:32:05)

[Deleted by Admins]



koella -> RE: Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 6 2007 21:40:56)

Or pimaaaa. Which is plucking p-i-m-a and then pulling a upwards till the d-string.
If you want to do it fast.



Ricardo -> RE: Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 6 2007 22:41:00)

Make sure you are very strong with this first:

E---------0----------
B-------0-------------
G----1---------------
D-2-----------3-------

So you can do that real fast, and also this:

E-------0------------
B---------0--------
G-----------1-------
D-2-----------3-------

Once you have those two really even and can go really fast, it just a matter of practice. But I find the problem is between the last a finger and m finger switching directions. pimaMi. So I made an excercize with 5 notes where you go pimam, and leave a space for inex, then start again. Each time you stop on that m finger, it is on the b string, you change the melody note. I tabbed it somewhere, and will look for it again. Anyway, most students that can do that fast, can easily do the full arp pimami. I have vid lesson of these types of arps at flamenco-teacher.

Also be aware if you are doing FULL plant or sequential plant. Full plant makes it easier for me to go fast, but some players are much faster than me (like Nunez) that NEVER do the full plant.

Ricardo

found it:
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=17801&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=pimami&tmode=&smode=&s=#17805



XXX -> RE: Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 7 2007 12:09:37)

Hey Ricardo, how do you see the concept of no planting at all? So, literally free stroke, your fingers dont touch the string beforde hitting.

@Jeff: what really helped me is this: pima, imap, mapi, apim. And same method "backwards": amip, ....



n85ae -> RE: Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 7 2007 15:09:14)

Thanks for the advice, that gives me some ideas to try. Definetly when I listen
to the way really good flamenco players really whip through them so quickly,
and with that distinct crispness there's definetly some technique involved.
Basically because really good flamenco player arpeggio's sound flamenco.
Hard to describe exactly, but I think anybody on the forum know's what I mean.

Back to prac tice, Thanks!

Regards,
Jeff



Stu -> RE: Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 7 2007 15:34:15)

Hey, another good practise technique for this (as well as everything else) is overlapping/underlapping. Its helped me a great deal especialy with my continous rasgueado.

basically it goes like this...... for arps...

.....If you are playing pimami, pimami etc,...then you have six strokes.

For underlapping,
Play very slowly and precisely and count each stroke as you go. Count in fives. 1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5 etc and stress every stroke on the count of 1.

So you'd end up with....
PimamIpimaMipimAmipiMamipImamiP......etc etc
1234512345123451234512345123451.....etc etc
You are basically changing where the stress is everytime. The stress moves in the opposite direction of the apr.

For overlapping you just count in sevens and again stress every count of one. this time the stress moves in the same direction as the arp.

Does this make sense??

It may sound confusing here but once you try it you will see how it works and its fairly straight forward.
Once you've cracked it its good to use on other techniques aswell.

Stu



Ricardo -> RE: Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 7 2007 18:19:27)

quote:

Hey Ricardo, how do you see the concept of no planting at all? So, literally free stroke, your fingers dont touch the string beforde hitting.


There is no such thing. Even if you think you are not, you are. You can't play a note with out first "touching" the string. Even if you only touch the nail, you still touch first before plucking. The plucking is when the strings slides off the nail and produces vibration.

But in flamenco, you should never be touching with ONLY the nail. (Not talking rasgueado of course). The better plant you have, the more secure your tone, volume, control etc, will be. Same goes for classical guitar I guess.

Ricardo



wiseguy493 -> RE: Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 10 2007 19:59:34)

My opinions, if they are worth anything =)

The "quickness" in this type of arpeggio playing is really accomplished through (1) a whole lot of practice, (2) properly shaped and applied fingernails, (3) a light and free-flowing technique.

Like tremolo technique, if you don't have fingernails that are long enough (or are too long) then you'll be struggling to make the technique work and this will cause tension in your technique, interrupting it. Let your nails strike lightly across the strings and focus on using as little force as possible while still getting enough volume. There is a point in playing at which more force does not give more volume because it decreases your clarity. Find this point in all your techniques and you will find yourself playing with less effort and achieving greater tone and volume with more control over your dynamics. A little slow low-effort practice and you will find that point, then it should start coming to you naturally when your muscles have memorized the motion.

I hope that helps.



n85ae -> RE: Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 11 2007 14:39:22)

Actually, I have found Ricardo's little excercise to be quite usefull.

Thanks Ricardo, and everybody else!



Pimientito -> RE: Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 11 2007 22:03:04)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shroomy726

There is no magic, just practice.


There is a trick though that i learned from a classical player that gets arpeggios lighning fast. Put all your fingers in position before you start the arpegio. a on 1st, m on 2cd, i on 3rd and your thumb on the bass. As you play each note lift the finger in sequence but keep the rest of the fingers on the strings. That way they are already in position. coming down they will naturall find their place again. Then put them back on the strings again. To start with you have to reposition your hand for each arpeggio but once you get it up to speed you can go malmsteen fast with no mistakes cos each finger is already on the string you want to play
(is this the full plant you are talking about?) I dont see how you can go faster without doing that!



Ricardo -> RE: Solea Arpeggio's (Sep. 12 2007 1:26:37)

quote:

Put all your fingers in position before you start the arpegio. a on 1st, m on 2cd, i on 3rd and your thumb on the bass. As you play each note lift the finger in sequence but keep the rest of the fingers on the strings. That way they are already in position.


Yep, that is what I do too. It is called a "full plant". Doing amip or ami ami etc, feels more natural to do sequential plant, one at a time. Just so you know, I was surprised to realize a few years ago that Gerardo NEVER does the full plant...ever either direction. And he is amazingly fast.



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