Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Full Version)

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tadamori -> Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Jul. 12 2007 5:16:56)

I have been researching for a good nylon string guitar that is also affordable. I have narrowed it down to the Yamaha CG171sf and the La Patrie Etude. I was originally going to get the Yamaha, but then while I was researching i found the Etude is cheaper and seemed to rank just as high. Both had reviewers claiming that they outperformed guitars up to the $1000 mark. The problem is... I haven't been able to find either at my local guitar stores to test out though.

From what I have gathered...

the Yamaha is of very good design and is quite sturdy.

The Etude is also of good design and has a very good sound to it. The drawback seems to be that it's top is easily scratched. A difference is that it has a thinner neck with a trusrod in it.


So anyhow, Has anyone played both??? If so which would you recommend? I am not really caring about authenticity in construction. I am just thinking in terms of sound and playability.

As for my own musical interests, I am an eclectic player getting back into guitar playing. I improvise a lot of rock, jazz, classical styles. listening wise, I like brazilian Jazz a lot like baden powel. I also like Bach and other classical and gypsy flamenco guitar.. Plus I like music like the Beatles, Queen, Muse, Cranberries, 60's, 80's.

Any input would be awesome! THanks!

- Tad



JBASHORUN -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Jul. 12 2007 17:53:43)

lol, yup... the Patrie Etude is NOT a Flamenco guitar. Whereas the Yamaha CG171SF is. If you wanna play Flamenco I'd go with the Yamaha... I have one, and it is ok. But if you're not really into flamenco, then it doesn't matter... buy an Ibanez or something.

Jb

ps: you can probably get away with playing other styles on the yamaha.



itoprover -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Jul. 24 2007 19:45:22)

Just tried Yamaha FL1 - not bad at all for the money ($479 Canadian) - responsive, nice basses, loud, action is a bit high but there is enough bone protruding.



odiemann -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Jul. 24 2007 21:47:46)

Being newer to flamenco, I am just thinking out loud.

LaPatrie's Etude does seem somewhat like a flamenco negra in specs. So couldn't it be used similarly after the action is adjusted?

Just a thought



JBASHORUN -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Jul. 24 2007 22:42:10)

quote:

LaPatrie's Etude does seem somewhat like a flamenco negra in specs. So couldn't it be used similarly after the action is adjusted?


Meh, ok. The following is copied and pasted from the la Patrie website:

Motif
The Motif takes its compact dimensions from turn-of-the-century parlor guitars. This is an excellent instrument for anyone more comfortable with a smaller instrument. The compact body of the Motif suggests a ¾ size instrument but this is a full-scale guitar. Most children from about six years old can handle the Motif quite comfortably and because they are practicing on a full-scale switching to a full size classical guitar can be accomplished with very little adjustment. There is more to the compact body style of the Motif than comfort, this is a serious guitar with many of the same features that professional guitarists look for in the best handcrafted instruments. The solid cedar top and genuine lacquer finish ensure that this guitar will not only sound great when you first receive it but will actually become better sounding with playing over time. The body is made from a three-way lamination of hardwood that includes a poplar center sandwiched between two layers of mahogany. The Motif neck is made from Honduras mahogany with an Indian rosewood fingerboard.

Etude
The Etude is the most popular model in the La Patrie lineup. The Etudes specifications match those of the Motif but with a full size body. Incredibly responsive thanks to the feather-light lacquer finish, this guitar features great dynamic range along with the harmonically rich sound that you usually find in a guitar several times the price.

-----

So what they are saying is that the "Etude" has a back and sides of 3-ply thick hardwoods (a lamination of 2 parts mahogany with one part poplar)?

That doesn't sound much like a Flamenco Negra to me. But I am also just thinking out loud, and no expert.

Jb



odiemann -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Jul. 25 2007 2:42:38)

Well, that sounds as much a negra as the Yamaha is to a top line blanca, right? Cedar and Mahogany = negra (laminated sides, sure). Spruce top with cypress sides and back = blanca (laminated sides and back for lower priced guitars). Seems to be comparable in each respect.



JBASHORUN -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Jul. 25 2007 17:56:37)

quote:

Well, that sounds as much a negra as the Yamaha is to a top line blanca, right? Cedar and Mahogany = negra (laminated sides, sure). Spruce top with cypress sides and back = blanca (laminated sides and back for lower priced guitars). Seems to be comparable in each respect.


Er... a "Flamenco Negra" has ROSEWOOD back and sides, NOT mahogany. Mahogany is usually used on CLASSICAL guitars. And IF the Cypress on the Yamaha IS "laminated" it would be interesting to hear what it is laminated with.

There are also OTHER differences between a classical style guitar and a Flamenco one apart from the tonewoods.

Jb



Estevan -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Jul. 25 2007 18:47:11)

quote:

Mahogany is usually used on CLASSICAL guitars.

Only the bottom-end cheapo ones. On decent ones rosewood is the norm.

quote:

And IF the Cypress on the Yamaha IS "laminated" it would be interesting to hear what it is laminated with.

Of course it's laminated! Probably just with more cypress - lamination doesn't always mean a variety of woods.

It's easy to tell which Yamaha guitars are made with solid wood because they make a point of saying so (on their website catalogue). When it's not solid, they make a point of not saying so.
I know the Yamaha is good for the price but it feels and sounds laminated.

By the way Bash, how's that guitar you made? Haven't heard anything since it was completed.



JBASHORUN -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Jul. 25 2007 22:28:15)

quote:

Of course it's laminated! Probably just with more cypress - lamination doesn't always mean a variety of woods.

It's easy to tell which Yamaha guitars are made with solid wood because they make a point of saying so (on their website catalogue). When it's not solid, they make a point of not saying so.
I know the Yamaha is good for the price but it feels and sounds laminated.

By the way Bash, how's that guitar you made? Haven't heard anything since it was completed.


As I suspected... laminated, but with several layers of Cypress. I just can't see the point in that. I agree though, the yamaha is is ok, but its far from a concert level guitar.

My first guitar? Its here right now in its case. I've played it in a bit, sounds ok. But I must contact Pablo Requena and ask his opinion on eliminating a few buzzes.

My second one is coming along nicely too... back, front and sides thicknessed and ready. Neck scarf joint completed with head veneer attached. I'm currently working on the slots to attach the neck to the ribs. Yes, this one is being done according to the Santos Hernandos plans, and hopefully it will be an improvement over the last. fingers crossed.

Jb



Estevan -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Jul. 25 2007 23:07:41)

quote:

laminated, but with several layers of Cypress. I just can't see the point in that.
Isn't it a way of making use of not-so-good bits of wood? I really don't know.

Anyway, it's great that you're working on your second guitar - good luck with that, and I'm looking forward to the photos (and sound bites?) when it's done.
Steve



odiemann -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Jul. 26 2007 19:11:58)

Thanks for the info on Mahogany versus Rosewood.

I too don't get the laminate cost issue. It must be a fraction of the cost or someone would have a hell of a business making all solid guitars for $500.



ChiyoDad -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Dec. 4 2007 1:34:29)

I came across this old post while doing research and thought I might as well add a little more info to it.

I have a La Patrie Presentation as one of my classical guitars. It is a "prettier" version of the Etude, IMHO; with Rosewood laminated sides/back rather than Mahogany laminated sides/back and with a semi-gloss finish.

It's action is low for a classical and it has a slightly-radiused fretboard. It requires hard-tension strings to eliminate buzzing (it ships from La Patrie with hard-tension standard D'Addarios). I suppose one could use either the Etude or the Presentation as a short-term flamenco, or a hybrid guitar for both a classical and flamenco. Its action and construction doesn't quite adhere to traditional builds for either, although that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I myself will probably be getting a Yamaha CG171SF in the near future. I'm probably just going to stay on the lower-end for now since I'm just a beginner.



HemeolaMan -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Dec. 4 2007 5:53:06)

@ tio estevan

well, alot of really stellar builders are taking to laminated woods these days

the difference is... they make their own, very thin, our of really good wood, to avoid cracking issues, not to save money.

i have played a few lam classicals that were so well done that you really could barely notice the difference

however, i own (regrettably) and ibanez classical something or other that has a supposedly and well advertized "solid" spruce top... which was laminate!!!

so be wary of what you see advertized. i mean, gibson makes their semi hollow electrics out of lam lol. its not as if its the biggest secret in the world that people lie about materials.

when in doubt, check around the sound hole. if you cant CLEARLY see that it is spruce beyond a shadow of a doubt, then it is likely to be lam



ChiyoDad -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Dec. 4 2007 18:21:30)

quote:

when in doubt, check around the sound hole. if you cant CLEARLY see that it is spruce beyond a shadow of a doubt, then it is likely to be lam

Even the soundhole check is difficult these days with the better builders.

To the best of my knowledge, Yamaha makes only two full-sized, laminated spruce models these days, the C40 and the C45. I have the latter and a discerning eye will see that it is an inexpensive guitar and conclude that it's probably a laminate. But just looking at the edge of the soundhole reveals nothing because the lamination was done very well.



HemeolaMan -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Dec. 5 2007 4:06:51)

agreed, the only way i found out about mine was trial by belt sander!!!



Estevan -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Dec. 6 2007 21:11:00)

quote:

@ tio estevan
well, alot of really stellar builders are taking to laminated woods these days

@sobrino hombrehemeloa

I know (I have one) - Bash and I were talking about laminated back and sides (well at least I was; I think he was), but it seems you're maybe talking about laminated tops..??



HemeolaMan -> RE: Yamaha CG171sf vs. La Patrie Etude?? (Dec. 7 2007 2:13:14)

both actually

b and s's are easy to tell too tho

what kind are you playing?



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