Adam -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 6 2007 2:37:49)
Eh, a Raimundo 130 classical bought at a Sam Ash in the US, with a brand new golpeador (just got it in Granada) to make it a bit more suitable for flamenco - nothing really high end! It's a fabulous guitar, though, for something mass-produced it's got a great feel and sound reminiscent of guitars worth a good deal more - I think I lucked out with it :)
Paleto -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 6 2007 4:08:19)
98 Plazuelo - I am very happy with it.
It would be nice to have 3 or 4 but at the moment I can't afford another.
The Plazuelo is very responsive, more than any other guitar I have played, which isn't all that many. When others ask me to play their guitars, I usually don't have much interest, which I guess says a lot. I have a friend who has a 1960's Rodriguez (Cordoba), which is excellent, but I prefer mine. Although I can hear that the tones are more focused on the Rodriguez, I like the brighter trebles and deeper bass on mine.
Someday, I'll get out and try some others when I have the money to invest in another.
Patrick -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 6 2007 4:27:55)
quote:
The question that I have is whether Green is better than a DeVoe sound wise and playability wise.
Mike,
Sorry I can't answer that. When you get to this level it all becomes subjective. I can't say a DeVoe is better than a Green. They are two very fine guitars with great playability. Trust me, I am not trying to avoid your question. It would be great if we could have a standard set of criteria to go by, but it just aint so.
DeVoe's have a bit of an unusual neck profile and take a little getting used to. He shapes them so the treble side is a bit thicker then the bass side. In other words it's not perfectly symmetrical.
As for number of guitars, yes Lester has built a whole bunch more, but Aaron's been full time for many years. I have only seen two for sale. Aaron was selling one for a customer getting a new one. The other by a fellow that couldn’t play anymore due to an injury.
I will tell you this. I have a friend that has a world-class collection of flamencos. He currently owns a DeVoe negra (Brazilian), a Green blanca and a Green negra. He feels the Green negra is in a class by itself and puts it above his DeVoe. He said his Green blanca was in the league of the best he had ever played. He should know. Name most any world-class flamenco builder dead or alive and he owns one, or owned one.
Hope this helps.
Guest -> [Deleted] (Jul. 6 2007 5:23:59)
[Deleted by Admins]
Jim Opfer -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 6 2007 11:33:01)
quote:
he offered to sell me his "spare" guitar, Arcangel Fernandez at £300 in Edinburgh back then (1970)!
A lot of cash back then Ron but oops!
RobJe -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 6 2007 12:28:48)
8 is the maximum number to avoid divorce! 60 Ramon Parramon (been in Rio for 6 months with my son playing bossa nova) 62 Juan Alvarez Gil (made for Arcangel Fernandez with invoice signed by Marcelo Barbero Hijo) 68 Jose Ramirez III cedar top pegs (racked up the most gigs) 88 Antonio Ariza pegs (great for old fashioned Zambra Mora with D tuning) 90 Manuel Bellido pegs (concert model with special strutting - simply the best) 95 Antonio Duran (typical of older Granada School, pleasure to play, too beautiful to gig) 96 Manuel Bellido (professional model with minimum decoration used for rehearsal - great guitar) 03 Conde A26 (bright, aristocratic, perfect balance across strings) ....all blancas Rob
guitarbuddha -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 6 2007 13:07:53)
Whats the cheapest Jim?
DavidT -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 6 2007 14:53:42)
Lione,
quote:
ORIGINAL: Shroomy726
I have had a Yamaha CG171SF ever since I started playing, about 3 years ago. But I am in the process of getting one of Anders' guitars!! [:)][:)][:)][:)] It's a huuuuge step up and I CAN'T WAIT! [sm=Smiley Guitar.gif]
How about we describe how a really good guitar feels like? I have NO idea since I've had the Yamaha as my only guitar; and guitar shops around here don't carry good flamenco instruments... I think the Yamaha is VERY hard for both the right hand anf the left hand, do people agree? How is it in a good guitar? It's much easier on both hands? Enlighten me!
Lionel
My experience on playability: the Yamaha is as easily on my hands as my $6500 one.
Dave
Guest -> [Deleted] (Jul. 6 2007 15:06:46)
[Deleted by Admins]
tk -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 6 2007 15:26:05)
quote:
I have a friend that has a world-class collection
I think PAtrick is making reference to this gentleman.
I can't really comment on Green guitars since I haven't played one but I love my Devoe and I see a lot of the same characteristics as my Reyeses in my Devoe i.e. strong trebles, loud, some type of dryness (specially in the Devoe) and lyrical sound. But overall I agree with Patrick, each instrument is very different from the other...you should play it first.
TK
duende -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 6 2007 16:33:14)
"Anders" blanca
Jim Opfer -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 6 2007 17:04:10)
quote:
I think PAtrick is making reference to this gentleman.
I take it his name is Chris?
tk -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 6 2007 19:31:43)
Yes Jim,
His name his Chris Kok from Hong kong. As Patrick said, he has the guitars of all hte famous makers Reyes, Gerundino, Barbero.....
TK
Escribano -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 6 2007 21:42:31)
A Bernal "La Serrania" blanca (bought from Stephen Hill's shop when he was in England; where I first met him and Fergusito, now good buddies) and a custom Anders blanca peg-head (yeah, custom baby! Maybe the first with the cracked olive firewood rosette and pink label?).
If you missed it, here is Emilio Maya giving it the once over:
Anders is also now a good buddy. Good luck Anders, whatever you are doing in Huelva!
I am such a flamenco groupie [shucks] [&:]
p.s. my Anders is smooth, bright, easy, forgiving and smells like the inside of a very cute, blonde, hippy chick's Afghan coat.
Ron.M -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 6 2007 21:52:02)
quote:
Anders is also now a good buddy. Good luck Anders, what ever you are doing in Huelva!
Yeah, absolutely Anders!
Duh...I forgot to mention (which was the point of the post). I have..
Jose Ramirez (student model) and Valeriano Bernal (both blancas) and an Anders Negra (which is my main guitar now).
Can't play any of them the way I'd like to though...[:D][:D]
cheers,
Ron
Patrick -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 7 2007 2:19:04)
quote:
I think PAtrick is making reference to this gentleman.
Yes...that's him
hassurbanipal -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 7 2007 10:47:51)
one vicente carillo blanca one cashimira and one conde.......
and I love this three handsome women.......
MKodji -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 9 2007 18:37:39)
Well I asked everyone to answer but I never told you what I have....
Devoe Negra[:D]-Nice guitar
I guess I have to add one "Spanish" Lady next to it!
Mike
dyst0pian -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 9 2007 19:02:55)
Mine is a Juan L. Cayuela , I bought it from his store in Sevilla . Anyone else ever heard of him? I guess most local luthier probably dont have that much popularity.
tk -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 11 2007 1:06:33)
Patrick and Mike,
Today, I had the chance to play a Green Negra (SP/IN) flamenco guitar. It was my first time playing a Green guitar after so many excellent reviews. I would say that it is a very good instrument with great volume and excellent playability (easy to play). It has a very long sustain compared to other flamenco guitars. Since the conversation in this thread went towards comparison of Green vs. Devoe, I have to say that they are VERY VERY VERY different instruments:
Differences: -Devoe has an overall deeper sound than a green. I would say more like a profound or thicker sound than a Green -Devoe has a shorter sustain than a Green -Devoe has a dryer sound than a Green -Devoe's trebles are more lyrical than a green
-Green has more echo than a Devoe -Green has a longer sustain in the trebles. At one point I felt like it almost sounded like an excellent classical guitar -Green's trebles are thiner in sound than a devoe such as a conde Negra (AF25/R) but with a longer sustain than a Conde
Similarities - Devoe and Green are both very easy to play
Overall I think Devoe sounded more flamenco to me than this particular Green Negra which reminded me more of a classical guitar (this particular instrument). They are 2 very different styles. One can not say that one is better than the other since they are very different. I loved Green's workmanship. Beautiful instrument. The action at the bridge of the green was very low but at the 12th fret was 3....mm which could be a little high for some flamenco players. But I am sure that coulsdbe fixed if wanted.
Now again I am not saying anything negative about the instrument but I tried to highlight the differences or the characteertics of these instruments. The Devoe to which I am comparing it to is also a Negra but with Cedar top and Indian rosewood and to another Devoe blanca (SP/CY). My opinion could be different if the Green was a blanca.
Mike I know you wanted to know the differences between these 2 makers so I tried to explain it based on this one Green experience that I had today.
Hope it helps for your decision,[;)]
TK
TANúñez -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 11 2007 3:27:34)
quote:
The Devoe to which I am comparing it to is also a Negra but with Cedar top and Indian rosewood and to another Devoe blanca (SP/CY). My opinion could be different if the Green was a blanca.
This changes everything. Your post was very informative but when you get to the above part, that changed everything. You can't compare a Spruce/Indian negra to a Cedar/Indian negra fairly nor a Spuce blanca to a Spruce negra.
Too bad you didn't have Spruce/Indian DeVoe to compare with. It's very hard to fairly compare one makers guitar to another. One thing to mention is that DeVoe's style or bracing inspiration is that of Torres. Green at one point was inspired by Barbero's with some modifications. Don't know if this is still accurate. This alone makes them different each with their own unique sound. When shopping for one or the other, you first need to ask yourself what sound it is your wanting.
Your evaluation was helpful though. Especially is someone out there is curious about a DeVoe negra with a cedar top or a Green negra with spruce top.
MKodji -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 11 2007 5:17:19)
thanks TK. The information is very helpful. I own a Devoe Negra SP/IN and can easily see what you are describing as a Devoe sound. Cedar or Spruce, the sound you described applies to any Devoe guitar.
Other Devoe owner, what do you think?
Thanks, /mike
tk -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 11 2007 15:21:05)
Thanks Tom and Mike.
Tom, you make a good point but I tried to highlight the characteristics of sound the maker tries to get rather than the impact of the wood sound. I also realise the type of wood will have a great impact on the sound but I played Devoe blancas and Negras and they all have something in common dispite the wood difference. I assume Green would be the same too.
TK
TANúñez -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 12 2007 3:46:11)
Hey TK,
I know what you mean. Sometimes, I get carried away or too technical. I have a problem. I am an addict. A guitar junky. I need to go into rehab.[:(] The only way to fix it is to get both DeVoe blanca and negra and both Green blanca and negra [:D]
Taranto -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 12 2007 20:58:32)
I'm playing a Pedro de Miguel negra top model. I wouldn't say it's the best guitar I've ever played and I always find it better than other guitars, be it a Conde, DeVoe, Gerundino or whatever [:D]
But it's a nice concert class guitar. It has a little of everything rather than being on the extremes. It has a bit of a classical guitar in it. The trebles are responsive but at the same time have enough sustain and volume, kind of a round sound. The basses while percussive have enough sustain.
nhills -> RE: I am always curious..... (Jul. 12 2007 21:29:46)
'61 Manuel de la Chica - battered student model, but nice sound '95 Michael Thames - good sound, but not very loud '68 Norman Hills - yah, I made it; loud but boomy
