Sharing music, is it legal? (Full Version)

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Zorro02 -> Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 22 2007 21:03:09)

Hello.
You people have really helped me a great deal over the past months. One thing that appears to be missing however, is the sharing of flamenco material, ie MP3s.
I am tryig to build a collection of traditional buleria, alegria etc, for my own personal study.
Any ideas how best to go about this would be warmly welcomed.



Ron.M -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 22 2007 21:27:57)

quote:

One thing that appears to be missing however, is the sharing of flamenco material, ie MP3s.


Zorro,
I hate to say it man...but "sharing", although it sounds very "friendly" actually means "stealing" someone elses work and giving it away.
Some folks like to "buffer" their feelings by saying "Oh, the Big Record Companies are going to make the money anyway..."
A lot of the time Flamenco stuff is released on independent labels....hey come on man...EVERYBODY knows how to make a CD these days!
That kinda argument puts me in mind of burglars who break into folks houses and steal and mess up all their stuff and feel innocent by saying..."So what?...The Insurance Company will pay for it anyway???"
So what do you want to do?
Accept this guy's "sharing" of someone else's DVD recorder, that he stole out of his home, as a gift, because he's already got one he stole last week?
And say "Thanks!! You Da Man!!

This whole Internet thing has really got to be sorted out somehow IMO.

I met a great Flamenco guitarist, not rich or anything, just a working musician, who released his first album.
He spent over two years on it, plus a lot of his own money..
Within 12 months it was available free on the Internet...

What kind of incentive does that give to anyone?

Anyway...I won't go on.

I'm not getting at you Zorro
I'm just saying Think about it.

cheers,

Ron



JBASHORUN -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 1:00:29)

I have to admit that Ron is 1000% correct. Although Zorro: seek and you shall find, where there's a will, there's a way, etc, etc, etc. [;)]

Jb



Ricardo -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 4:04:45)

quote:

am tryig to build a collection of traditional buleria, alegria etc, for my own personal study.
Any ideas how best to go about this would be warmly welcomed.


How about BUYING SOME CD's???????????????????

Flamenco-world.com has some, flamencoconnection.com, etc. Lots of places to find stuff.[;)]



JasonMcGuire -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 4:46:38)

Music cost lots of money to produce, not to mention the years of unpaid work perfecting the crafts of playing, recording, mixing, mastering..........not to mention the gear. Artists rely on royalties from CDs to survive. It is your choice, you can certainly find it for free, but is it right..................no. You know it is stealing. Go and download a whole bunch of pirated mp3's and get a cracked version of "The Amazing Slow Downer". Steal all the licks you can and in the end what have you got........a bunch of bad vibes. Thats the way to show how much you value flamenco. [;)]



Guest -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 4:59:28)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonMcGuire

Go and download a whole bunch of pirated mp3's and get a cracked version of "The Amazing Slow Downer". Steal all the licks you can and in the end what have you got........a bunch of bad vibes.

[:D]

yes no one can argue with that, the artist and recording engineers etc deserve to be paid for theyre hard work. But i feel differently about transcribing material using software (you paid for of course) because that is a skill in itself. Not everyone can transcibe accuratly even when it is slowed down, and if you really like a falseta and your playing it for fun and not making money off it.I think thats o.k, well i hope its o.k...ah what do i care im crap at transcribing stuff accuratley anyway.



Ricardo -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 5:21:18)

I personally feel if you actually take the time to save up and spend some money on some music, you may actually take the time to really LISTEN to it. At least that is how it was for me. When people give me CD's as a gift or burn copies for me, I listen one time and that is it. But if I really want to hear something and I have to pay good hard earned money on it, or really have to HUNT for it, I focus my attention on it more.

But sure, I have wasted money on some Cd's here and there, but I usually give em away to someone who appreciates em more than me. I have met folks with huge stacks of copied transcriptions and hard drives full of music they never read or listened to, and never will.

Ricardo



Florian -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 5:28:02)

Zorro with all the respect amigo none of us come here looking for free sh*t. And i am no Angel, I mean one way or the other i get what i need to get.

But... there are alot more valuable things you can gain here, i hope you can see that.

and everyone shares what they want, its not a must, theres practice loops, theres free lessons, theres exercises, videos, falsetas most valuble ADVICE.

not even gonna get into sharing of illegal stuff, just talking stuff we writte up etc.

but let me ask you .... what have you contribuited ? the place is what you make it..

dont upload illegal stuff, but u can upload stuff you write or practice stuff or ideas, or even photos from concerts, stuff that you have transcribed whatever...
use your judgement, if its one track from a good album and it would give the guitarist exposure, i dont see any problem with free promotion for him and educating for us. (mibe not the hole track, but a portion of it)

I uploaded many litlle samples of many albums i like, and some members found that they liked it too and didnt have it and as result to that went out and ordered the cd.

So give before you ask and use your judgement of right or wrong.

Sorry i dont mean to sound too criticising, but sometimes i get fustrated because i see 300 members online and its always the 30 odd ones that contribuite, offer music comments, get involved etc.

the rest must just be lurkers looking for free sh*t ? i dont know ( and i dont mean that in your case, because you are quite new here but I guess your post brought it out of me [:)] my apologies, its not so much directed at you,it would
just be nice to hear from more members I just dont understand it everytime you press last post its always the same 40 members that writte. but i am sure that we have alot more members than that.

sorry used your thread to get my fustration out [:D] its not you its my own fustration [:D] Ive never appologised so much in criticising someone in my life [:D]
... sorry [8|] i guess i am not a good confrontationalist (Yes !! it IS! a real word, i cheked google) [:D]

if i could create the perfect world id make it so that i can criticise people but they cant get upset with me for it because that hurts my feelings [:D] beeing such a humanatarian is such a heavy burden on my shoulders lol..

I started this post so confident and convincing,[:D] i felled like there was authorothy in my tone yet gentleness, belivable etc.. but it started to fall apart half way trough
now beacuse i feel gulty il just end up buying you everything you need [:D]

ok so i better stop now before i offer you my new anders just to get you to like me [8|]



Guest -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 6:38:35)

quote:

the rest must just be lurkers looking for free sh*t ?

yeah bloody lurkers, its creeping me out[:o][:D] only kidding, theres nothing wrong with lurking it just sounds like a dirty word. As long as youre only lurking on the internet and not around other peoples bedroom windows late at night.[&:]



Florian -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 7:11:17)

quote:

yeah bloody lurkers, its creeping me out only kidding, theres nothing wrong with lurking it just sounds like a dirty word. As long as youre only lurking on the internet and not around other peoples bedroom windows late at night.


Oh no no no Domenic, no you missunderstood my post [&:] I wasent picking on OUR lurkers, i didnt mean OUR lurkers!! , I love the FORO Flamenco lurkers we have a silent respect for eachother [:)] i mean other lurkers from other websites who have never been here, is like "What have they ever done for Flamenco Foro ? " and why do we need em ? I was just saying that they are bad [:-] , we dont need people like that around here.



ps [:D] its really fun picking on lurkers lol, i mean what are they gonna DO ?[8|] .....replie ?[8|]

and if they do, then they cant be lurkers and arguing with me would be really silly cause my comment dosent applie to them [:D]

dont you see !!! I finally found a win win situation ![;)]



Guest -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 7:26:31)

lol...well there 7 people lurking right now and feel i should give them a voice cause we all deserve to be heard. You can kiss our rosy red lurkin' butts[:D]



Florian -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 7:27:28)

I love this 7 guys !!! they are my most favourite out of all the other lurkers man !!

STOP !! trying to twist my words to make me look like the bad guy [:@]


I dont want some silent thread made by a lurker called
quote:

" "

where all the other lurkers go and post silent insults about me.
infact i am feeling a vibe right now and i dont like it !

silent insults are the worst cause theres no way to defend yourself from it [8|]

just to be clear i am not picking on any lurker that can read this... just the other ones[:)].



Guest -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 7:39:03)

''
%$#*


$#%* "



Guest -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 7:43:31)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dominic

''
%$#*


$#%* "

they asked me to pass that onto u, theres 197 out there now. It can from 7 to 197 in the blink of an eye, theye outnumbering you bigtime flo[:D]



Guest -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 7:45:47)

now theres 225, theyre calling in reinforcments[&:]



Florian -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 7:47:23)

[&o]


quiet time would have been a good idea from me about 30 minutes ago [:)] but i guess better late than never ha?[8|] gonna go warm up



Guest -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 7:53:21)

whats a lurkers favourite song?
'your the voice' by John Farhnam[:D]...o.k that bad[X(]



Florian -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 7:56:29)

I tought it was " ITS ONLY WORDS" [:D][:D][:D].........[8|] shut up Domenic you getting me into more trouble!

just to be safe i wont step outisde the walls of this forum on the internet for a while, they might be waiting at the door for me to beat me up[8|]

i really dont know what the hell am I doing picking on lurkers for [:D], in my defence i haven performed in 5 months and tonight i am playing again, i am a litlle nervous, i gues its my way of dealing with the nerves, some people warm up, i talk sh*t[8|], its a defence mechanism only i go the other way.

dont take too much of what i say to heart, i dont care lurkers are good or bad, either way whatever you say [:D] whatever the most amount of people decide ... i am with them [;)]

i really dont think anybody should listen to me for anything [:D] and i am only half kidding [8|]! if it were up to me id give you all bad advice so that id be the best player[:)]

sorry forum and sorry zorro [:)] didnt mean to hijack this tread
dont be mad ![:)]



Guest -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 7:57:59)

i think they knew you were kidding man, yourve been very sensitive latly flo. you think too much[;)]



Georg -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 14:20:42)

Men, were you bored today?

You could have learned several falsettas instead of writing.


Nevertheless[;)], Florian, I gave your e-mail adress to all the lurkers...[:D]...and Juan Martin...[:D]



John O. -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 14:36:57)

Sharing music sucks, that's all there is too it. You're stealing from your hard-working idols and peers, maybe even ruining some of their careers. As for the big record companies - you can count on the big executives getting their millions, but they have many employees down at the bottom who will all lose their jobs. And besides, would stealing a rich man's wallet be morally okay anyways?



Ailsa -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 14:58:14)

Flo that's real stream of consciousness stuff. Or possible unconsciousness..[;)]

You must be real nervous, chico. Either that or it's the stimulants.[;)][;)]

Hope it goes well tonight. Let us all know. [:)][:)]



Florian -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 23 2007 16:25:10)

quote:

Hope it goes well tonight. Let us all know.


lol it went pretty crap [:)] sound was very very low because they didnt get a mixer, big mixup up with the sound and kareoke machine.

and the restaurant was huge booked out and on the seacliff, so whatever sound there was , wasent even getting as far as the singers ears who was sitting besides me.

Yes i was bored today, and i was practicing at the same time as i was writting, guess i got carried away [8|] if we had a chat room it would have been fine, i was posting as if i was chatting.

i am not that sencitive i been watching too much Larry David and Ricky Gervais (Curb your enthusiasm and Extras lately), i got carried away with trying to imitate theyr type of houmor lol
ofcourse it dosent work so well in text [:)]

i was serious and joking at the same time , i dont know i am over it now.



gato -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 24 2007 2:55:36)

Share your original music, that you made, that is what the internet offers, it is a tool for comunicating your music, and information, it's free and it's good. Buy what costs money otherwise anywhere plausable. That should be the golden rule. As for lurkers, I have no idea what to say, they are not saying anything......



Zorro02 -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 26 2007 14:20:20)

Hello Florian and others.
Ahh if you are feeling that guilty I would gladly accept your Anders as compensation.
I have purchased many CDs and as you are probably aware, there are ususally only one or two buleria or alegria etc on each.
What I would really find useful is a Cd that focussed specifically on each. I am merely attempting to improve my skills as a flamenco guitarist. This I believe can only be achieved by having as much exposure to the music as possible.
I can appreiate, 100% the arguments that have been raised in this thread, but my resourses are limited.
I have several solo compas CDs although helpful, they lack variety.
I promise never to mention file sharing again and will hang my head in shame. I do hope that others will do the same and can admit it honestly.



Florian -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 26 2007 14:48:21)

quote:

I promise never to mention file sharing again and will hang my head in shame. I do hope that others will do the same and can admit it honestly.


lol .. no need to go nuts [;)]

anyway i feel silly for jumping on you like that, all i made were fairly obvious observations, and i do also understand where you are coming from.

nothing wrong with your goals, and how you get it its your bussines, i am noone to judge, but in either case right or wrong its not a good idea to make it public at the foro, since anyone can read.



Ricardo -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 26 2007 17:25:03)

Just go to youtube and type in the search "bulerias" or "alegrias" or "solea" etc. Better yet:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=buleria&search=

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=alegria+flamenco&search=

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=solea&search=

etc etc etc



Stu -> RE: Sharing music, is it legal? (Jun. 29 2007 14:26:09)

On the subject of sharing and downloading tunes, check out the episode of Southpark called "Christian Hard Rock" sorry no link, just keep your eyes peeled(or perhaps d******d it) ooh er

Aswell as being extremely funny, a large part of the episode deals with the whole illegal downloading thing and offers a rather entertaining insight.

Anyone seen it already??

Stu



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