Camerón (Full Version)

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Kate -> Camerón (Jun. 13 2007 18:16:14)

I finally got hold of the Camerón DVD, not a live concert but his life story. Has anyone else seen it ? Would love to hear what you thought.

I thought it was pretty lightweight at the time but days later I am still mulling it over.

It was quite hard to work out the time scale. When we saw a cajón onstage both harold and I went " No, too early" but then realised that maybe more 'fictional' time had passed than we thought. We were also just about to bitch about the fact Camerón had not been shown playing the guitar when they had a shot of him in his hotel room playing, for about 5 seconds.

It was also a bit annoying that there was nothing about the creative side of life, ie who write the songs, where did they come from etc. In the end it was not that informative, young Gypsy boys fails at being a torero, so becomes flamenco singer, goea to madrid, gets famous, gets married, dies.

However it was sort of fascinating, even though they were actors, to see Antonio Mairena and Manolo Caracol watching the new kid on the block. We had the subtitles on and bizarrely they did not bother to translate the word " payo/a" which was used a lot, dont know how they expected English audiences to know what that meant. Also funny as Camerón himself was a payo actor but he was pretty convincing. At the panuela ceremony at his marriage they showed the women going into a room and then the camera soft focused on four carnations on a white table. I wonder how many foreigners got that reference.

Worth seeing I think,

Kate



guitarbuddha -> RE: Camerón (Jun. 13 2007 18:36:18)

Hi Kate, I am afraid that although I haven't seen the film I too am now confused as to these references, could you clear it up for me.

Perhaps if you are this obscure you too should be a biopic director[8|] [:-]

Yours mystified yet with the audacity to tease,

D.



duende -> RE: Camerón (Jun. 13 2007 18:48:41)

i think it was ok. but it could have been much better (informative) I dont speak spanish but i understand enough and knows enough abut camaron to know what went on in that movie.



Kate -> RE: Camerón (Jun. 13 2007 19:05:14)

Oh dear it must be the drugs. I forgot to mention those. One scene shows a musician chasing the dragon and the smoke is going everywhere but up the tube. Guess the director had never done smack or he would know better!

My confusion with the film is the timeline. For instance he sets off for Madrid and arrives at the train station singing " Soy Gitano" but that was not recorded until much later in the 89. His last album in fact. Very early on in the film they show a cajón on stage when the cajón did not arrive in Spain till the 70's though of course as there is no time reference it could have been the 80's by this point in the film.

They also dramatically had Camarón learning he had cancer just before the famous Paris concert. I wonder if that happened or was just dramatic effect.

Anyway see the film and let me know what you think.

Payo or paya means a non gypsy and the Panuela ceremony is part of a Gypsy marriage, the panuela ( hankerchief) is shown to the wedding guests to prove the girl is a virgin. If you get four drops of blood ( in the film signified by four red carnations) you are a super virgin !!

Kate



paco picado -> RE: Camerón (Jun. 13 2007 21:51:42)

I was speaking to an old aficionado, when in Almunecar, a Gitano, who spoke good English,as he worked in an Estate agency and as my Spanish, even after a year and a half, never went further than ordering food at restaurants or asking directions etc. In fact this inability, plus my moderate to mild dyslexia, I have had as a kid; in learning my own language English, has made me hang up my Guitar, for a long time to come. But anyway to the point of this thread. Cameron once played in the park in Almunecar, and the guy i spoke to who has lived there for years said, he.. Cameron did a concert in the park; would sing for maybe half an hour, then disappear into the Barrio Gitano, near the Castle, to get his shot of Heroin. This would be repeated, every hour /half hour throughout the show. I don’t know what year this was, but I believe him, for reasons I don’t want to reveal.
Cheer
Paco Picado



Kate -> RE: Camerón (Jun. 13 2007 23:47:55)

I've heard stories of how he was in the studio and the film does actually reflect that. They did not shy away from the drug abuse.

Also BIG APOLOGY now I have had a glass of rioja i can see I mispelt his name amd this thread should read Camarón. Agh [:@]

Kate



guitarbuddha -> RE: Camerón (Jun. 14 2007 8:02:23)

Thanks Kate.
D



Ricardo -> RE: Camerón (Jun. 14 2007 10:46:09)

All I can say is, when you see a movie about such an art form portraying such important figures both alive and dead, just appreciate what is being done. No need to be such a nerd about "the cajon", etc,. Oh no, the guy portraying Tomatito is using a 1997 Felipe V negra! [8|]



Kate -> RE: Camerón (Jun. 14 2007 13:32:39)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
Oh no, the guy portraying Tomatito is using a 1997 Felipe V negra! [8|]


je je je pot kettle black
Kate



buleria -> RE: Camerón (Jun. 14 2007 19:18:45)

Well, I hope I'm not hijacking this thread (Sorry Kate!) but I wondered if anyone had got hold of the recent Camaron biography? (the first in English) Those of you who read my earlier posts will know that this has been written by a good friend of mine but I would highly recommend it regardless. It has had some very good reviews in journals such as the new Statesman and provides so much more insight than the dvd. For those who are interested the full title is Flamenco Legend: In Search of Camaron de la Isla by Marcos. Karenanne
ps I enjoyed the dvd for the music but also found it a bit 'light'.



Donald -> RE: Camerón (Jun. 16 2007 21:33:44)

Kate, Don't worry about the misspelling. For a long time I confused it with the Scottish clan name( he with the crooked back) rather the spanish shrimp de Isla. Heaven forbid he could become prime minister from beyond the grave. Donald



duende -> RE: Camerón (Jun. 17 2007 6:31:02)

quote:

in Search of Camaron de la Isla by Marcos


i got the book. i think its ok. i would have liked some more stories from the road and the studio with Paco and Tomatito. the creative side.
But you shouldnt hesitate to buy it.



Kate -> RE: Camerón (Jun. 17 2007 12:07:47)

Hi Karen Anne,

No of course you are not hijacking the thread. I'm glad to see it is still going after Ricardo called me a nerd [:)]

Anyway I was only asking round the other day if there was a really good Bio of Camarón. So thanks for the tip. Also think your comment that the movie was light is true, for me anyway. Yes there are glimpses of the dark side, the dilema of flamenco, Gypsy poverty and customs, and the phenomena that was Camarón but just that glimpses, oblique references. Duende got it right saying that as he knew so much about Camarón he could follow the underlying references, but without that it could be the film bio of any singer, ( albeit one who got rich, famous and died young) and he was not just any singer.

For me to analyse and criticise a film is critical appreciation. Ricardo's comment that Camarón was such an important person is an understatement. Here in Spain Camarón is practically worshipped. The part in the film where they leave the church and a mother brings her sick child to be blessed hints at it. In almost every bar there is a picture of Camarón, alongside the virgen, in a gilt frame sometimes with flowers, looking more like a shrine. Not a day goes by when I dont hear his voice coming from an open window, a local bar or a passing car. So Donald maybe not prime minister from beyond the grave but an unofficial Saint.

Anyway talking with the girls the other day we all agreed the actor did an amazing job and at times we forgot it was not Camarón himself. We also agreed it was great anti smoking film !!

Off topic from flamenco but I saw Babel last night and thought it was great ! I loved the way the world connected from the US to Japan to Morroco and how one gun shot reverberated round that world.

Kate



Ricardo -> RE: Camerón (Jun. 18 2007 3:36:22)

quote:

I'm glad to see it is still going after Ricardo called me a nerd


Hey, it takes one to know one.[;)]



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