Lattice Braced Flamenco (Full Version)

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chapman_g -> Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 6 2007 14:54:14)

Luthier Music Corp in New York is offering Australian Maker John Price lattice braced, arched braceless back flamenco guitar, and Tony Acosta over there says they a quite remarkable instruments. Anybody played a lattice braced flamenco or a John Price flamenco guitar? Oh, the price tag is $8,000.00.



stephen hill -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 6 2007 16:30:23)

You can have one of mine for $6000! actually I would like to hear it. In my opinion a lattice flamenco is very hard to make as the pulsation is quite different. It could sound very luod but somewhat plasticky. I'm interested in how he does it and with what results



aarongreen -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 6 2007 16:35:47)

Lattice guitars to me seem to be a one trick pony. In other words they don't have the range of musical qualites that I would like to see in a guitar. There are plenty of "traditional" guitars that fall into this catagory as well. I am not saying that someone might be able to work around this but so far I have yet to see it. I think it is inherent in the design that the musical range of the instrument will be more limited with a lattice or double top design.



Per Hallgren -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 6 2007 16:46:26)

Also, to me it would be difficult to build a flamenco sound with a arched braceless back.



stephen hill -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 6 2007 17:51:59)

I agree, the back gives so much tonality and character and can control the amount of sustain, an arched back would have way too much sustain I believe



stephen hill -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 6 2007 17:55:04)

aaron, I build a lattice model cedar classical with a traditional body and no carbon fibre with the top not so thin, open lower harmonic bar also with the lattice going through, sounds good and not honky or plasticky, but would never build a flamenco lattice. whats the point...?!



chapman_g -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 6 2007 18:43:41)

Stephen,
Obviously I know nothing about guitar construction and I am asking this question purely out of curiosity and desire for knowledge. You mentioned that you build a "lattice braced classical, but what is the point of a lattice braced flamenco?" So my question is: What is the point of your lattice braced classical?



stephen hill -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 6 2007 20:37:34)

Ah good question! well, the classical guitar has a very different response to the flamenco, higher action, a search for sustain and power with clarity, and projection. I started this model out of curiosity and got nice results, not going with the smallman system but wanted to create something more natural, it worked and I got lots of orders, so I refined the system and now it is one of my standard models that I like. I do sometimes prefere the normal way of construction though.... but of course it doesnt work for flamencos at all IMO , at least the way I build. The flamenco guitar is a different beast entirely and we are looking for tradition not innovation.



chapman_g -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 6 2007 23:25:04)

Stephen,
Last question and then I'll leave you alone. Putting sustain aside don't we also want power, projection, and clarity with flamenco guitars? I realize of course that in the end when it is played, the question will come down to does it or does it not sound flamenco. I guess I am just wondering if it is possible to get the power, projection, clarity associated with Lattice Braced guitars, but also get the earthy, woody sound associated with flamenco guitars?



flamencoguru -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 7 2007 4:23:28)

I played a John Price lattice flamenco and I would not have paid $1000 for it. Well constructed but no sound..... at least not flamenco. I didn't play it for very long but I know if a guitar is good after a few strokes of the strings. I sounded like white toast.... if you can imaging that. The guy that owns it paid a pretty penny for it.

Apparently Dennis Koster was with this guy when he bought it from Luthier Music Corp.

Un saludo, Errol



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 7 2007 8:21:25)

quote:

The flamenco guitar is a different beast entirely and we are looking for tradition not innovation.


Well, Stephen, What do you mean with that we are looking for tradition and not innovation and who are "we" ?



Per Hallgren -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 7 2007 8:52:31)

quote:

What do you mean with that we are looking for tradition and not innovation and who are "we" ?


Stephen and I. What about you?[:D]



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 7 2007 16:00:39)

Well, I look for inovation at the same time as I work on a traditional basis. Without that, I would feel I was just reproducing, which would be a feeling of going nowhere.
I dont think I will ever produce something revolucionary new, I might not even produce anything new, but I will always try to expand the limits and not just say that I follow tradition.



stephen hill -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 7 2007 18:12:03)

Anders, yes, we is a big one and I mean that if we (woops ) I make a flamenco that differs from what people expect a real flamenco to sound like then noone would buy the damn thing!!! So I search for that inspiring sound based on what I hear and have heard... but of course I do all sorts of innovations that noone knows about, except for you perhaps ! As you came to visit you know all my secrets.... (hmmm what are those) As you said before there are no secrets. abrazos!
news re huelva? (new post)



stephen hill -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 7 2007 18:14:01)

yes I do want power and clarity in a flamenco but not so much sustain.



Per Hallgren -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 8 2007 6:43:13)

quote:

Well, I look for inovation at the same time as I work on a traditional basis. Without that, I would feel I was just reproducing, which would be a feeling of going nowhere.
I dont think I will ever produce something revolucionary new, I might not even produce anything new, but I will always try to expand the limits and not just say that I follow tradition.


That is what I do in my classical guitar making. For the flamencos I am still exploring the difference between the classical guitar and the flamenco, i.e. exploring the flamenco tradition. Same with my playing. I have played the classical guitar for 30 years (which people would find unbelievable if they heard me [:D] ) but flamenco for only a couple of years.Together with my teacher I am now exploring the basic compass for the different palos. I would love to play stuff like Gerardo but I guess one has to crawl before walking...learn tradition before exploring new things.



duende -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 8 2007 6:58:19)

whos teaching you? Robban svärd,Emil Pernblad or Magnus stedman??



Per Hallgren -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 8 2007 7:41:00)

Magnus.



duende -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 8 2007 11:47:52)

how is he as a teacher? i´ve been think about getting a lesson sometime



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 8 2007 17:05:38)

quote:

That is what I do in my classical guitar making. For the flamencos I am still exploring the difference between the classical guitar and the flamenco, i.e. exploring the flamenco tradition


Funny enough, for me its 100% the opposite. Since I mainly build flamencos and play as well, thats where I feel safe and where I innovate and build my own concept.
I classical guitars, I build copys.... I think I can say that they sound and play very well, but I dont feel like exploring on my own.



Per Hallgren -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 8 2007 17:33:06)

If you come here we can have a Pripps, or a beer, [:D] , and trade secrets!



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 9 2007 8:30:35)

I take the Pripps. Its so authentical[:D] Tjock korv med potatismos och en en Pripps..... jätte cool.



Ricardo -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 10 2007 18:59:47)

quote:

Luthier Music Corp in New York is offering Australian Maker John Price lattice braced, arched braceless back flamenco guitar, and Tony Acosta over there says they a quite remarkable instruments. Anybody played a lattice braced flamenco or a John Price flamenco guitar? Oh, the price tag is $8,000.00.


Well as luck would have it I just tried such a guitar in Said shop on Tuesday. My feelings are the same as Errol's. Big fat classical sound, not flamenco at all. Very loud, but not the sound you would want for flamenco overall. I compared to Conde in the same shop, what a big difference. I was with a Gipsy singer, and I played one falseta por bulerias, and this guy Tony said "no no don't play loud, don't do golpes! People don't like it here". I said sorry, and did a tremolo, and the guy looked at me like "shhhhh!". The singer and I looked at each other and rolled our eyes. I did not bother telling him I bought a Conde from him ten years ago and had sent many customers his way. We just got up and walked out.

Anyway, 8K might be fine for the work put in, but I think before you start experimenting with lattice bracing or whatever, first you need to have a built a successful flamenco instrument. Perhaps if J. Price has a blanca model, it would work better? But the negra was not working for my tastes.

Ricardo



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 11 2007 8:09:52)

quote:

Anyway, 8K might be fine for the work put in,


Maybe I should build some Lattice braced flamencos. I seems like its where the money goes.[;)]



Estevan -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 12 2007 17:10:43)

Anders, if you want to make it big like this guy, you'll have to change your name to 'Precio'. Seems to work for him.
[;)]



chapman_g -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 17 2007 4:19:21)

So I tried the John Price guitar. It is loud with good projection, and the action for left and right hand is good. However, bottom line is it really does not have any kind of flamenco sound. I can't describe it but instead of those bases going blaaa they go boooo.



Ricardo -> RE: Lattice Braced Flamenco (Jun. 17 2007 7:08:10)

quote:

Maybe I should build some Lattice braced flamencos. I seems like its where the money goes.


Yeah, but you need more pieces of wood to make those Lattice braces. So you have to spend more on materials. See how it balances out? [:D][:D]



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