RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Full Version)

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Florian -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 11 2007 13:53:58)

FOund out today at rehersal we werent allowed to tell anyone Juan Martin and Eliot Fisk are appearing , they sopossed to be like Surrprise Guests [:)] I must have been starring at someones legs when they told us that information.


I told them :

_ " I didnt tell anyone !![:@] I am not silly "


that reminds me, i got to delete a couple of bulletins cause the guitar festival is on my friends list [:D][:D]



koella -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 11 2007 20:42:41)

That's funny Flo.
You gotta pay us to keep quiet.
However ? Because of you, it will be hard to find anyone who doesn't know already.[:D]



cathulu -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 12 2007 4:45:03)

Hey this is my first post - since it's about Juan maybe it is not apropos? [:D]

I saw Juan Martin locally in Vancouver BC just recently. He was with a female singer (who also danced a bit) and a male dancer called "El Tigre".

I would say Juan was OK and entertaining, the best parts I can recall were his Solea, Alegrias, Taranta and a Sevillanas with the dancers. His Rumbas were OK also, especially given he does not have a full accompaniment a la Gypsy Kings. To my slowly improving ear he played well with the dancers and had a strong thumb.

He played this arabic / flamenco piece that started interestingly but ended up just noodling along and was a pastiche of ideas and styles. His Bulerias was not harmonically very interesting - I guess a bit old school, but OK also.

After the concert we snuck in backstage after asking someone to get him to autograph my copy of El Arte Flamenco. Juan signed my copy and my guitar teacher got his picture with Juan. Afterwards Juan actually invited us to come into this room where all the invited guests were drinking wine and waiting for Juan. He chatted for about 10 minutes or so answering questions. El Tigre was wandering around and he was really quite a funny chap - very nice also. He was surprised we had red faces in Canada and attributed it to the wine!

Juan appeared very generous and did not put on any aires so to speak. He admitted the star of the show was El Tigre, who received the most response from the audience. He said there wasn't a lot of money in Flamenco - so I'll keep my day job assuming I ever get good enough...

His handler was leading him around and he was following along without protestation. Believe it or not he was going-up to Yellowknife as part of his tour of Western Canada - smaller venues. Really not that glamorous, what it takes to get by I guess.

My take on Juan is that he is an accessible guitarist, kind of like Ace Frehley of KISS. It is conceivable that a beginner might sound like Juan one day,,, I'm still trying!

Anyways, I am interested to follow this thread to see what happens!



Florian -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 12 2007 5:44:50)

hi cathulu :-)
welcome to the foro.



HemeolaMan -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 12 2007 6:35:11)

joo shoul all no..... I h'am juan martin. and h"im piss' ass hell at allof joo! jo makey foreign pigszsz!! lol



Guest -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 20 2007 15:02:40)

its this weekend isnt it? say hello to the 3rd best guitarist in the world for me would you. (are you doing his workshop?)



Florian -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 20 2007 15:22:46)

quote:

(are you doing his workshop?)


[:)] no unfortunately i cant make it i have something on that day, I would have otherwise....



paco picado -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 20 2007 18:51:32)

You have to give Martin credit for his longevity. I remember hearing him in the late 70's as a kid on radio 3, and he is still managing to get attention and concerts, whatever people say about his style. He does have a unique style that one recognises immediatley, compared to virtually everyone else, who all sound the the same, in the PDL mould. This is an old argument, but it is never the less is as appropriate today as it was in the 80's when Paco released Sirroco, and from that day on everyone followed, including guitarists as aclaimed as Sanulcar etc.
Paco



Florian -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 20 2007 19:03:52)

quote:

He does have a unique style that one recognises immediatley,


does one ? Vicente , Canizares etc have a unique style that one recognises straight away, to me J.M. sounds like any other guy from the 50's or 60's...with all the respect.

quote:

compared to virtually everyone else, who all sound the the same, in the PDL mould



so i gues according to you he's the most original guitarist out there alongside Paco [:D] is that what you are saying ? yes Paco was the father of modern flamenco guitar, but i still hear a world of difference in the modern guitarists, own personalities etc. some more then others, and the only reason J.M. dosent sound like a mould of him is because frankly its over his head and beyond his technical capabilities, the complex compas, syncopation that Paco does (expecially in the more recent years) , is way past and more sophisticated than anything i have ever heard JM do. SO i gues its not really a question of different style is more of a question of different level and understanding in every aspect of flamenco guitar.
JM sounds now like what Paco would have sounded like when he was 9 or 10.
IMO

quote:

and he is still managing to get attention and concerts


that has nothing to do with the guitarist, talent or music its a different department all togheder, Promotions, advertising, management etc.

Btw. what do you say to the fact that almost noone in Spain knows who JM is ? Most of his performances are outside Spain...perhaps they are missing the magic.


anyway i do respect Juan but not because of his playing , not really my cup of tea, i respect him because of his books, and because of his age and because of the level of fame he has achived....considering..is that ok ? [8|] He might be a lovley guy and i might just fall inlove with his personality, but I have been around long enough to have my own taste and opinions.

Look at Koella... he loves me [:)]... dosent like my music...i accept that, hes still one of my best amigos.

Just as i am sure everyone else here has, so this type of discussion is pointless really, you will never turn me and i will never turn you.



JBASHORUN -> [Deleted] (Nov. 20 2007 19:25:07)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 11 2011 17:45:12



Florian -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 20 2007 19:29:15)

quote:

Flo, dude, you HAVE TO say that to Juan when you see him this weekend! It would be HILARIOUS! Go on... you know you want to!


while i have a strong opinion on what i like and what i dont i am not rude, why would I ? whatever my opinion is Juan will go on beeing Juan, I wouldnt wanna go out of my way to upset someone for no reason, I dont have a problem with Juan, more with the people who try to shove him down my throat.

but who knows come sunday he might change my opinion and sweep me off my feet.



Guest -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 1:05:09)

quote:

but who knows come sunday he might change my opinion and sweep me off my feet.

yeah, and pigs might fly too...[8|]



wiglebot -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 2:05:37)

Juan's Solo Flamenco Books are great. But people always tease him. He must know this.



Mark2 -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 2:07:22)

Flo,
Maybe it's not so much "beyond him" as just not a part of him. He's been doing his thing for probably 40 years, why would he feel the need to learn stuff that is new now? I'm sure he could play Bbmaj7 instead of Bb, but maybe he likes Bb more? I'm not talking about his technical skill, but the choices all of us make when we play. He may very well like modern playing, but know it doesn't suit his audience. And while the difference between Canizares and Juan Carlos Romero is clear to you, I'm not sure it is to Juan's audience. I think most of them would rather hear a zambra than a buleria in C# with a bunch of major 7th chords.

If he were to learn of bunch of Tomatito style stuff, will players who are into it run out and buy tickets to his gig? No, they will wait for Tomatito to show up.

Imagine yourself at 60 years old. Do you think you will be running out buying every new CD to learn the latest falsetas? Or perhaps, you will be happy to tweak the concepts you have spent a lifetime fiddling with? Or maybe, you will have a career playing, with an audience who likes whatever it is you are doing. And you just might be more worried about catching the plane to your gig than learning the latest falseta. I don't like his playing either, but I've read more crap about him than any five guitarists deserve.



Florian -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 10:49:43)

From here on, on this thread i am gonna use bodylanguage to express my emotions because i dont wanna say anything wrong [:)].

quote:

Flo,
Maybe it's not so much "beyond him" as just not a part of him. He's been doing his thing for probably 40 years, why would he feel the need to learn stuff that is new now? I'm sure he could play Bbmaj7 instead of Bb, but maybe he likes Bb more? I'm not talking about his technical skill, but the choices all of us make when we play. He may very well like modern playing, but know it doesn't suit his audience. And while the difference between Canizares and Juan Carlos Romero is clear to you, I'm not sure it is to Juan's audience. I think most of them would rather hear a zambra than a buleria in C# with a bunch of major 7th chords.


Imagine yourself at 60 years old. Do you think you will be running out buying every new CD to learn the latest falsetas? Or perhaps, you will be happy to tweak the concepts you have spent a lifetime fiddling with? Or maybe, you will have a career playing, with an audience who likes whatever it is you are doing. And you just might be more worried about catching the plane to your gig than learning the latest falseta. I don't like his playing either, but I've read more crap about him than any five guitarists deserve.





quote:

If he were to learn of bunch of Tomatito style stuff, will players who are into it run out and buy tickets to his gig? No, they will wait for Tomatito to show up


- people who go to see

- dont ussualy go to

but whatever, i respect him as much as you do and dont peticulary enjoy his music same as you, but i wasent gonna say it for no reason PACO provoked me !! I aint donne nothing man he started it.

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Pimientito -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 11:36:41)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian

I respect him because of his books, and because of his age and because of the level of fame he has achived....



Very well said Flo. Juan is not the best player in the world and he certainly knows it having seen him myself come out of a Paco de lucia concert with his jaw open.

However he is an amazing business man. He only quotes (uninformed) press reviews, has excellent promotion, usually has excellent backing artists and his best selling books introduced a whole generation of guitarists to flamenco outside of Spain.

I know we (especially me) like to take the mickey out of his playing but the fact is , if we are all so much better, why are we not more famous and wealthy as a result? Who else here works that hard on tours and promotion? The fact that a foreign (ie non spanish)audience cant tell the difference between JM and Canizares means that talent is only half the story. Whilst we are arguing about technique and aire, that guy is making a mint!

Most of us play flamenco for the arte, for the feeling of self development through personal improvement. Juan has taken his limited ability and made a stunning career out of it. Thats a lesson we can all learn.



Florian -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 11:48:10)

quote:

Most of us play flamenco for the arte, for the feeling of self development through personal improvement

yeah ya the art and self feeling and all that and CHICKS [:)]



Ailsa -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 11:51:53)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
i play for chicks [:D][:D]

Me too. Is it working for you? [;)][:D]



Florian -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 12:03:03)

quote:

Is it working for you?


not that much [8|] alcohol is still my best aphrodisiac atm, its what gives me the drive to practice.



henrym3483 -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 12:25:23)

didnt juan study with paco for a period of time?



Pimientito -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 12:51:52)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
yeah ya the art and self feeling and all that and CHICKS [:)]


Yeah, I saw that coming as I wrote it[:D][:D] touché
Definately an added bonus though!!

Henry-when it says Juan studied with Paco, thats a pretty loose statement that could mean anything from Juan spent time in Pacos house being personally taught his best material.....to figuring out some falsetas from a record and asking him about them one day when he had the opportunity. Either way its clear who is master and student.



Florian -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 13:32:28)

quote:

didnt juan study with paco for a period of time?


I dont know ...did he ? I am having trouble imagining it.



henrym3483 -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 13:45:33)

thats what it says on one of the books i have is that he studied with paco.
juna played with eva la yerbabuena and a couple of other people as well.

theres a couple of pics of paco and juan together playing guitar together, in the two books i own of juan's.ones at a party with camaron,paco and enrique morente i recall and the other is paco and juan playing guitar in a sitting room with some other guys i don't know on guitar.



Florian -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 14:10:22)

oh, well there you go, cool. so i guess he would have liked to play like Paco [:)] did you hear that Mark2 and Paco Picado ?[:D][:D][:D]


ps. dont take me too seriously, just having a litlle fun [:D] what do I care [:)]



Pimientito -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 14:27:15)

quote:

ORIGINAL: henrym3483

thats what it says on one of the books i have is that he studied with paco.
juna played with eva la yerbabuena and a couple of other people as well.

theres a couple of pics of paco and juan together playing guitar together, in the two books i own of juan's.ones at a party with camaron,paco and enrique morente i recall and the other is paco and juan playing guitar in a sitting room with some other guys i don't know on guitar.


Juan did play with Eva Yerbabuena but it was Evas husband on 2cd guitar who actually did the real work. I saw one of the shows on that tour. Eva danced brilliantly, her husband was amazing and Juan sat in the spotlight with his guitar hardly in the mix and got all the applause at the end.
Like i said, he is an great businessman. Only the afficionados knew the difference but they made up 3% of the audience. That is why he gets such great reviews. He can afford to hire some big artists and put together a really good show.

As for studying with Paco - nearly everyone on this forum has a photo with someone famous. If Paco showed him even one falseta, that can be used in publicity as "studied with Paco"



Florian -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 14:31:56)

OLE !! [:D]............[:)]...[8|]...u are wrong !

views expressed in the comments and interviews are those of the individual speaker and do not in anyway represent the views of the Foro Flamenco or my own. [:)]



Pimientito -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 14:41:12)

I'll just plead insanity...wibble...jockstrap....jellyfish!![:D]

Anyway Flo, its quite an honour for you to be picked to play. You must be one of those big artists I was talking about who is going to make a great show[8D]



Florian -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 14:51:40)

Well Alo and I and its more to do with the festival than him but yes it is quite a honour, a kick no matter what i say, i owned his book when i started, it will be a kick to look to your side and see JM there.

We are all doing our own shows on the night on the same stage and at the end there's sopossed to be a number togheder, with us, JM and Eliot Fisk, i havent heard any more details yet of what it is or if its going ahead.

I imagine a buleria, but i am not sure if Eliot Fisk, plays buleria so i am not sure.

quote:

You must be one of those big artists I was talking about who is going to make a great show


the show will only be good if ther's chicks in the audience.

I soposse i should be practicing right now but it dosent really matter when you are good looking [:)]



Mark2 -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 18:07:17)

I'm waiting to see what you say after the gig.....................will it be

1. That Juan dude sucks harder than I thought. Eliot's bulerias buried him!
2. Juan is a MASTER, I'm not worthy
3. freakin Juan still pulls the chicks at 60 years old, I went home alone!!!!!!!!!
4. His esfake Esspanish accent is so much better than mine! I've got to get some lessons.
5. I've started the official JM fan club, and elected myself as president for life! I'm hoping to get a gig as his valet.



koella -> RE: Is this a bad time to tell you all we playing with Juan Martin ? (Nov. 21 2007 18:20:12)

You forgot 6.[:D]

6. JM broke both my arms and did bite of my strings when he found out I was Flo from the foro.



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