Compound Memory (Full Version)

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JBASHORUN -> Compound Memory (Apr. 14 2007 15:16:34)

I know about 3 different Soleas now. Not long ones, but 2-3 minutes each, and all slightly different. One thing I've noticed is that when I decide to play a Solea off the top of my head, what comes out is a MIX OF ALL THREE. I've got the intro from one, the remate from another, and a falsetta from the other one. these parts tend to change around, so that each time I play a solea casually, it will be slightly different. and I've even started attempting to compose my own remates (is that what they are called?). I find that once I've got the basic chords and rhythm down you can "mess around" with the rest and almost make it up as you go along! anyway, I just thought I'd mention it because it struck me as being slightly similar to "improvisation", and so I figured that when you "improvise", what you are actually doing is drawing from all the things you have ever learned/played/heard and hold within your memory- perhaps even unconsciously. And I call this "compound memory". so what comes out is most likely INFLUENCED (at very least) by something you have played, learned or heard before, even if it sounds slightly different.

I guess this (and compas) is partly why some Flamenco songs sound so similar to eachother. But every now and again, there comes a PDL who thinks OUTSIDE THE BOX... in other words, he dares to deviate from his compound memory and actually uses "original creative thought" to evolve the artform.

Obviously I'm not saying that every Bulerias sounds exactly the same, but I think my point is that its easier to remain within the creative confinements of memory and tradition than it is to make a TRULY original creative thought.

Any opinions, or am I just over-philosophizing again? [&o][:D]

Jb



Ricardo -> RE: Compound Memory (Apr. 14 2007 16:04:01)

Don't forget a lot of Paco's innovations were the result of some outside of flamenco inspiration. For example, playing with McLaughlin, or some of the excellent guitarists in Brazil. Chick Corea etc... Even Paco describes his own "genius" as thievery.



Estevan -> RE: Compound Memory (Apr. 14 2007 18:48:32)

quote:

Even Paco describes his own "genius" as thievery.


Maybe that's why he also said "Anyone can be a genius!"[;)]



Ron.M -> RE: Compound Memory (Apr. 14 2007 20:07:07)

quote:

But every now and again, there comes a PDL who thinks OUTSIDE THE BOX... in other words, he dares to deviate from his compound memory and actually uses "original creative thought" to evolve the artform.


Bash,
12 bar Blues is pretty basic and well defined in form and guitar runs.
So why does Robert Johnson and others stand out, basically just playing the same old stuff?

Music is just the same old 12 notes done in a different order.

Which order and how you do it certainly makes the difference though. [:D]


cheers,

Ron



JBASHORUN -> RE: Compound Memory (Apr. 14 2007 20:18:22)

I see what you mean Ron. and I also hear what Ricardo and Estevan are saying: perhaps its EASIER to deviate from compound memory and tradition and do something new rather than keep to it. Because the trouble is, when you do the same old thing, you have to do it PARTICULARLY well just to stand out from the rest.

Jb



Ron.M -> RE: Compound Memory (Apr. 14 2007 20:30:52)

Bash,
As far as Flamenco goes, on an amateur level anyway...I think it really boils down to a cultural/social problem myself.
The young amateur guy in Andalucia will be worried about getting his few falsetas practised right for supporting an amateur singer in next Friday night's local peña...
While lots of other "extranjero" guitarists the world over are sitting in their bedrooms, listening to CDs, writing tabs and trying to "advance" the form.

cheers,

Ron



JBASHORUN -> RE: Compound Memory (Apr. 14 2007 21:13:11)

quote:

The young amateur guy in Andalucia will be worried about getting his few falsetas practised right for supporting an amateur singer in next Friday night's local peña...
While lots of other "extranjero" guitarists the world over are sitting in their bedrooms, listening to CDs, writing tabs and trying to "advance" the form.


Ron, to quote PDL himself:

"There are many opinions about so-called “new flamenco,“ which includes things such as pop-flamenco, flamenco-rock, and flamenco-jazz. This is all bulls**t! The only evolution of the flamenco comes from inside the traditional flamenco guitar players and singers and dancers, and not from somebody who comes from another world. You know, yesterday someone was a rock player, and today he wants to be flamenco, so he makes a “new flamenco.” Many of these guys with their rock-star hairstyles and clothing are mostly just bluffs. That’s okay, and I accept what they are trying to do, but to make myself perfectly clear: I tell you that to create a new flamenco, you have to begin as a flamenco."

So there you have it!

Jb



andresito -> RE: Compound Memory (Apr. 18 2007 9:33:29)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JBASHORUN

Ron, to quote PDL himself:
create a new flamenco, you have to begin as a flamenco."



Or you could also say, 'to know where you're going, you have to know where you're from'.
Anyone else find it interesting that you don't seem to hear people saying they're 'new blues' or 'new gypsy jazz'?

Re: Jbash's original question, a wiser man than me said -

"New falsetas come from already memorized pieces of old falsetas. A flamenco guitarist's creative toolbox includes hundreds of falsetas that wereindividually worked on at some stage and perfected through repetition. In the middle of one falseta you can add a piece ofanother falseta, and before that bit is finished you could decide to add a fragment of yet another falseta. The result is a complete falseta that nobody has ever played before. But it didn't come out of thin air. The bits were at some time repeated many times and well rehearsed. For an experienced flamenco guitarist, all these memory fragments are swimming around inthe subconscious like hundreds of pieces from a gigantic musical jigsaw puzzle. As with the limited number of letters in an alphabet, they are capable of being creatively reassembled into literally thousands of new and unique variations (new musical words)."

from Sal's Flamenco Soapbox
http://herso.freeservers.com/flamenco.html[8|][;)]



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