Conde questions (Full Version)

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Consiliere -> Conde questions (Apr. 4 2007 13:34:08)

I am new in this forum, as well as new in the world of flamenco playing. After couple of years of classical playing - while I've been intersted in flamenco, however I did not try with it - I found that only listening won't get the most of it. So I started learning - or rather tried to play flamenco.
I've just bought a 1979 Conde Hermanos EF4, a lovely item - sounds good and smells good (because of the cypre sides and back. The reason why I chose a Conde was the simple fact that I am aware that lot of great flamenco guitarists - e.g. Paco de Lucia - play Conde guitar. While I was browsing among the instruments - mainly on the web - I realized that there are three Conde Hermanos shops and as I was reading issues about this matter I found the most contradictional opinions about them, even in this forum.
So far I am very happy with this student model of mine, but I am just wondering what are the differences between the Conde shops and their instruments in terms of quality, authenticity (as inheritors of Esteso's tradition) etc.



itoprover -> RE: Conde questions (Apr. 4 2007 15:09:50)

Check this thread out:
http://www.foroflamenco.com/atocha_or_flipe_or_gravina_%3F/m_59749/p_1/tmode_1/smode_1/tm.htm



Consiliere -> RE: Conde questions (Apr. 4 2007 15:46:31)

Thanks! I did.

What I could give as an addition:
I wanted to get a guitar like Paco de Lucia plays the Aranjuez Concerto. I like the sound and look of that instrument - particularly the rosette - and I started to investigate what an item that could be.

I checked the Gravina site on the web. They sell a so-called Paco de Lucia model but as a matter of fact it doesn't resemble to that what is on the DVD. I browsed through the Felipe site and I haven't found anything similar. Then I've found an item on Zavaleta's site named after Paco de Lucia from 2003 - with the signature of PDL (most probably a photocopy) - and I consulted with Mr. Greenberg - the owner of Guitarras Zavaleta - upon this matter. I hereby post his answer:

"Paco wrote a letter of endorsement after Faustino made him a guitar. Faustino (and in fact all the original Conde Hermanos)
have died. His widow claims that this letter is still valid as there isn't an expiration date, and continues to sell a "Paco de Lucia"
model, much to Paco displeasure. This has been going on for a decade or more, so my guess is that Paco hasn't been successful. I am staying out of it, and advertize this model as simply a flamenca negra. If you want a Paco de Lucia model made while the brothers were still alive, Julio died in 1995, Faustino in 1988."



Ricardo -> RE: Conde questions (Apr. 4 2007 17:37:54)

First of all, each guitar is unique. No matter how close even the original maker could try to make the same guitar as Paco's, it would still be different someway. The closest thing interms of design to the guitar Paco uses would be a flamenco Negra from Conde Hermanos built in the 70's or early 80's. There will be different rosettes and things, but a rosette should not be your focus. More the design.

The EF4 is a design used by the Felipe V address and is most surely built in Valencia in a factory. A comparable guitar you can find by makers like "Sanchis" or "Alhambra". They build the guitar according to design. The guitar closer in Design to the instrument Paco uses, from that shop would be the AF25 model, if any still made with brazillian rosewood. I Have this model in Indian Rosewood and I will say it is quite a good guitar, despite the fact it is not made by the original designers.

Perhaps you would be interested to know that the guitar paco used on Aranjuez, is completey refinished, different color and new rosette.
http://www.foroflamenco.com/m_56895/p_1/mpage_1/tmode_1/smode_1/tm.htm

Ricardo



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Conde questions (Apr. 5 2007 7:35:13)

Ricardo

Are you sure the Condes from the era of Pacos famous guitar uses the same bracing pattern as the never AF25 Negra



TANúñez -> RE: Conde questions (Apr. 5 2007 14:28:04)

I think Faustino's bracing was more like those of Esteso.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Conde questions (Apr. 6 2007 7:37:11)

quote:

I think Faustino's bracing was more like those of Esteso.


Thats a very insider opinion. Could you explain what it means



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