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jrabbani -> question (Apr. 3 2007 0:26:21)

I always come across material stating how PDL has changed flamenco so much. I was wondering if you agree or disagree with the following statement...

there are two types of flamenco:
flamenco before paco de lucia
and
flamenco after paco de lucia
I don't know the answer to this, but I suppose it could be argued both ways...what are your thoughts?



TANúñez -> RE: question (Apr. 3 2007 1:31:11)

quote:

there are two types of flamenco:
flamenco before paco de lucia
and
flamenco after paco de lucia


I have to totally agree with the above statement. Paco has taken the flamenco guitar to another level. The question is, who or will there be someone else that can possibly take it up another level after Paco is done?



ToddK -> RE: question (Apr. 3 2007 1:36:08)

I agree too, but wouldnt you say that Paco and Camaron were the
recent stage of development, not the only?

Wouldnt you say Sabicas and Carmen Amaya took it up a level from
where it was before them?
TK



hassurbanipal -> RE: question (Apr. 3 2007 6:27:03)

indeed todd.
Like in all musical styles it has been formed by lots of people over the years. We only remember those who are famous with it. Like sabicas and paco de lucia.
But flamenco has changed thanks to those people.

But another question, Is camaron the same for cante like paco is for the guitar? Because there are people who say that camaron sings like a dog but mostly there is no discussion wether paco can play the guitar.......

And if camaron isn't a real turning point for cante, who is?



Arash -> RE: question (Apr. 3 2007 8:28:47)

quote:

there are two types of flamenco:
flamenco before paco de lucia
and
flamenco after paco de lucia


100% agree!

Yes also Sabicas and others changed flamenco much but what paco did to flamenco was something different.
And i dont think that in the future there will be someone who can take it up another level (not like paco). Yes maybe little innovations here and there, but i think paco did almost everything to flamenco which could have been done WITHOUT loosing the flamenco spirit.



Ricardo -> RE: question (Apr. 3 2007 21:34:57)

I agree with the statement. Sabicas performed falsetas of R. Montoya and his own did not go orders of magnitude in a different direction. Paco evlolved from one album to the next, very quick. Sabicas played the same in 1990, musically speaking, as in the 50's. R. Montoya recorded in the 30's. Think about the time scale involved and how significant Paco's changes have been.

Ricardo



guitarbuddha -> RE: question (Apr. 3 2007 23:57:24)

The person who I think has most in common with Paco in all of music is Louis Armstrong.
To my ears what they gave their respective musics that had been missing before was rhythmic variety.

Paco syncopated more heavily and with more variety than the older players. Everyone after him wanted this more vocal ethnic feel to their playing ( sure it had been there to varying extent in compas playing but in falseta I think not )and it also carried flamenco in a direction which doesnt ever seem likely to converge with classical guitar.

But there are so many great players who were also contributing to this. The fabulous Paco Cepero playing buleria sounds a lot more like Paco than Sabicas. Im no expert but he is older than Paco.

I notice here that noone seems to mention Serranito very often here. What a fabulous player. A completely different direction to Paco but one that is also valid and very distinct. More 'classical' in sound and structure but completely realised by this tremendous player.

So Paco might be the pole star but there are plenty of others.

Well that's got that off my chest.



jrabbani -> RE: question (Apr. 4 2007 0:32:55)

Paco brought in other elements and experimented more with the music, as did camaron, however, I think paco brought it to a different level. We all see these vids here on the foro of paco and al, paco and akkerman, paco and corea...we dont see camaron with all these folk. I think that's where the difference lies within the two. Anyways, just my two cents!



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