A challenge!! (Full Version)

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Zorro02 -> A challenge!! (Apr. 2 2007 13:28:03)

Look at this Tàrrega 1978 anniversary model. The guy I brought my Brune from is also selling this special classical model.
This particular shape confers a particular sound to the instrument, also due to the presence of a narrow wood-band, called risounder, that surrounds, from the inside, the oval hole. Such hole is made precious by a national mosaic. The resonance chamber and the bridge are made of Jacarandà da Bahia, while the harmonic board is made of Red Cedar. The keybord is in Ebony da India and the neck is in Cedar. The head has the usual hand-made wood carving. The machine head, in golden steel, has exagonal ambered keys. The instrument measures: height cm 99; max width cm 36,5; resonance chamber depth cm 10,5. Weight kg. 1,900.
It is up for auction next week maybe ebay, maybe not!
Have you any idea the guy expects to get fot it?



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Ricardo -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 2 2007 15:56:16)

Tarrega model? I mean 1978, who made it? Depending on who made it I will guess a price.




Zorro02 -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 2 2007 17:56:17)

Sorry Ricardo. Suppose I have to give everyone a fair chance of guessing the price, the constructor is Reinaldo Di Giorgio. No cheating now and googling his name is not permitted. More information available if required.
Love your playing Ricardo!




Zorro02 -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 2 2007 17:58:13)

Another picture for you.



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JBASHORUN -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 2 2007 19:57:07)

Well, minimum for a good spec guitar is at least a couple of grand. Top end guitars are about 3-4k, and top end vintage guitars are 5k upward. I'm guessing this guitar is, new, but a "limited edition". However, I am not familiar with the luthier, so my guess is that its worth about 3 grand (Euros or Pounds) just due to its unusualness. But put it on Ebay and you might not even get that on a bad day. But if you're VERY lucky you might get a little bit more.

Jb




JBASHORUN -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 2 2007 19:59:24)

quote:

my guess is that its worth about 3 grand (Euros or Pounds) just due to its unusualness.


Well, maybe a bit more than 3 grand. But 3-5k I would say. Personally, I wouldn't pay much more for it.

Jb




edgar884 -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 2 2007 20:10:15)

Yep 3500.00 is my guess. I miss having a classical guitar, I would bet this guitar is a treat to play.




Zorro02 -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 2 2007 20:24:59)

Thus far nobody is near the valuation.
It is not going on e-bay but a specialist auction in London.
It toook 7 years to make and the model is 1878 anniversary Model.




DoctorX2k2 -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 2 2007 20:32:45)

Let's say 12 grand...




JBASHORUN -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 2 2007 21:04:26)

quote:

It toook 7 years to make and the model is 1878 anniversary Model.


LOL, You said "1978 anniversary model" in your original post!!! Anyway SEVEN years is a long time... if a guitar took ME 7 years to build, I wouldn't let it go for less than 15-20k.

Jb




JBASHORUN -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 2 2007 21:13:35)

quote:

if a guitar took ME 7 years to build, I wouldn't let it go for less than 15-20k.


That said, the fact that I have NEVER even HEARD of this luthier is worrying me. pehaps the guitar is very cheap? Even a top spec guitar may sell for peanuts if the luthier is an un-known or bad maker. If the guitar has a high estimate, I would be suspicious about whether it will actually sell for that price at auction.

Jb




Zorro02 -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 2 2007 22:20:25)

Here is the description, can the price/valuation possibly be true? Please tell me because I can not see how a guitar can be worth so much

"The model is Tàrrega 1978 An

Many of the most famous brasilian artists such as Tom Jobim, Joao Gilberto, used this guitar to the achieve the sound of the likes of :

“The Girl for Ipanema”

“Corcovado” known as “Quite Nights of Quite Stars”

“Insensatez” known as “How insensitive!”

and many more Bossa Nova hits

This model is named Tàrrega. Such name, due to a Reinaldo Di Giorgio's initiative, who decided to dedicate an instrument to a famous spanish guitar player called Francisco Tàrrega. The guitar was built was born 1978 and completed by 1985 and is called the 1878 anniversary Model and I bought it on march 1st 2006. The Tàrrega guitar, has a curious peculiarity: it has an oval hole. This particular shape confers a particular sound to the instrument, also due to the presence of a narrow wood-band, called risounder, that surrounds, from the inside, the oval hole. Such hole is made precious by a national mosaic. The resonance chamber and the bridge are made of Jacarandà da Bahia, while the harmonic board is made of Red Cedar. The keybord is in Ebony da India and the neck is in Cedar. The head has the usual hand-made wood carving. The machine head, in golden steel, has exagonal ambered keys. The instrument measures: height cm 99; max width cm 36,5; resonance chamber depth cm 10,5. Weight kg. 1,900.

The emotion that you can feel when you play a "Di Giorgio" Tàrrega. models form 70's and 80's is uncomparable, since you are allowed to taste, much more deeply and intimately, the warmth and the sweetness of that extraordinary music which is Bossanova. Now let's see, a little bit better, the principal models of the production

"Di Giorgio" classical guitars boast a tradition which is almost one hundred years old. They represent not only one of the main artistic expression in the field of guitar luthery, but also the essence of the brasilian music itself, bossanova in particular. Many of the most famous brasilian artists such as Tom Jobim, Joao Gilberto, Roberto Carlos, Marcos Valle, Dorival Caymmi and many more, helped to write Di Giorgio's history.

The factory "Violões Finos Romeu Di Giorgio" was established in 1908 by Romeu Di Giorgio, born in Rome - Italy, in 1889. He was a pupil of a lutemaker who built violins, and here he started to learn the secrets and the techniques of this fine art. Step by step, the factory "Di Giorgio", initially small-sized, turned into an effective industry specialized in acoustic instruments (guitars, violins, violas..) often used by european immigrants who arrived in Brasil in the first decades of the XXth century.

During the 40's, under the name "Indústria e Comércio de Instrumentos de Cordas Di Giorgio Ltda", the factory moves to São Paulo and in this period it develops, in particular, the production of violões (acoustic classical guitars). Such instruments, become very soon popular and start to sign the typical brasilian musical tradition. During the 60's, as soon as Bossanova was born and under the direction of the Founder's son, mr. Reinaldo Di Giorgio, "Di Giorgio" brand devotes itself as the main high-class guitar (violões) supplier for musicians and composers rising in that musical context.

Actually established in Franco da Rocha, in the state of São Paulo, with a huge productive surface and a large number of employers, the factory "Violões Di Giorgio", under the direction of mr. Reinaldo Di Giorgio Junior, still produces different models of violões and it confirms itself as one of the best world manufacturer in the field of an inimitable high-class luthery.

Owning a "Di Giorgio" guitar, does not mean to have one of the best "violões" only, it also means to enjoy the chance of holding in your hands and playing an instrument that made the history of Bossanova and that is actually the soul itself of the brasilian musical tradition."

Well What do you Think??

Is it worth the estimate of.........

$449.000.00, yes nearly half million big ones!

Can this be true?




JBASHORUN -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 3 2007 9:11:48)

quote:

Is it worth the estimate of.........

$449.000.00, yes nearly half million big ones!

Can this be true?


I would query that amount. I have never heard of this luthier, and when I did a Google search a few minutes ago, I found some of his guitars selling for less than 200 Euros:

http://spazioinwind.libero.it/bossanova/marketdg.htm

Interestingly, the SAME guitar is on this website available for sale, so that must mean that there is MORE THAN ONE!!!

http://spazioinwind.libero.it/bossanova/digiorgio.htm

If hes asking for half a million, I doubt he will will get that, unless its half a million Italian Lira. But please do let us know what the final result of the auction is.

Jb




JBASHORUN -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 3 2007 9:24:00)

quote:

$449.000.00, yes nearly half million big ones!


btw, are you sure its not $4490.00? cause that would make sense...

Jb




Zorro02 -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 3 2007 15:35:48)

Ok, I have spoken to the owner and he has asked me to pass on the following to you. The value of this guitar is genuine. Here is the reason... This is the actual guitar that belonged to the inventor of the Bossa Nova style of music, Joao Gilberto and he used it for may of his performances in the era 1985-1990. Joao Gilberto is considered in the same esteem as Django Reinhardt, whos' guitar is worth in excess of £100K GBP and is not even solid wood.




JBASHORUN -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 3 2007 15:49:12)

That might explain it... if it belonged to someone famous then it could easily bump up the price. That said, it would probably have to be Jimmi Hendrix or someone to fetch half a Mill.

Jb




Jim Opfer -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 3 2007 15:56:55)

It's a strange looking beast. The bridge slot is huge and it looks as if the bridge were made to take 10 strings, yet the bone is normal size as is the fingerboard. The carved head looks like it's by Geronimo Pena Fernandez.
In all the guitar looks like a collection of parts glued together.




Jim Opfer -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 3 2007 15:59:03)

Ah! that's it! made up on Pagemaker?




Ricardo -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 3 2007 21:30:40)

The most expensive classical guitar I have heard of was a little over 100K for an Herman Hauser, vintage, Christie's auction. 500K sounds like too much. Though I have heard of those prices for like Vintage used Martins, used by some famous people.


Ricardo




Zorro02 -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 3 2007 21:53:46)

This guy appaently is very very old and the founder of Bossanova. Do not know that much about this movemet but obviously very important to Nova followers. Suppose it is like owning an original PDL guitar, what price would you pay, if money was no object?




Alberto -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 4 2007 10:44:10)

Interesting! If this is the original Joao Gilberto Guitar then it could quite easily justify in excess $500K but it has to be real deal.

I think you will learn that even Jimmi Hendrix ,Paul McCartney , Quincy Jones, Sting, and all the other famous guitarist’s would have bowed down and took their hats off for Joao Gilberto as this is man who created this complex, infectious, colour harmony known as Bossa Nova.

I have been playing flamenco now for over 14 years of which I feel have been wasted after learning what I’ve missed out on “ The brazilin harmony of bossa nova” .Of course flamenco will always stay with but it's no longer my desire.

As much as I do love Flamenco it is not comparable with the likes Joao and with the detailed analysis of his harmony ,chords and colour you will all come to same conclusion that it’s not even in same league. Just to give an idea Some of his song can contain over 50 different chords which many time more than any flamenco songs

The trouble is that once you get into flamenco you become a frog in a pond and you can’t see outside of this pound where a whole new world of colour and beauty, seductive moods exists that awaits you. For what it’s worth I highly recommend that you all listen and watch very carefully at what this man does on with his voice and the guitar, his chords are oh so beautifully awesome.

Listen to some his sample track:
http://www.amazon.com/Amoroso-Brasil-Jo%C3%A3o-Gilberto/dp/B000002MHX

I warn you all now it is very extremely infectious! and you will leave the Flamenco world. * * * (Don’t say that I didn’t warn you) * * *


If there is someone who can be called the greatest guitarist of all time it would have Joao Gilberto.

He may not be familiar in the Flamenco world but once you guys realise what he does with only six nylon strings it would the Beginning of the END of Flamenco.

Joao Considered one of the most original artists and one of the most influential musicians of modern times, Joao Gilberto lives in Rio de Janeiro and performs at festivals and concert halls around the world.

He is 78 years old and he is the still the best in the world.


If I was a millionaire then I would gladly be prepared to invest in Joao’s guitar provided it is the original as described 1978 and authenticated Luthiers signature by Di Giorgio but unfortunately I’m not YET.




Guest -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 4 2007 13:30:33)

Alberto

You seem to miss the point that flamenco is cante and neither needs nor wants 50 chords per song. Bossa nova is wonderful music but flamenco is pure feeling.

Sean




Alberto -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 4 2007 13:37:23)

You are so right Sean ,Please don’t miss understand me I do think Flamenco is wonderful too...I just don’t know how to describe the harmony of Bossa Nova which again is also a syncopated feel but with the added complexity of colour




Guest -> [Deleted] (Apr. 4 2007 14:22:20)

[Deleted by Admins]




guitarbuddha -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 4 2007 14:24:46)

You like playing steel string Romerito ?




Alberto -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 4 2007 14:26:38)

Hi Romrito Can you send a link to this track ? would love hear this ..tks




Guest -> [Deleted] (Apr. 4 2007 16:28:42)

[Deleted by Admins]




Ricardo -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 4 2007 17:21:58)

quote:

As much as I do love Flamenco it is not comparable with the likes Joao and with the detailed analysis of his harmony ,chords and colour you will all come to same conclusion that it’s not even in same league. Just to give an idea Some of his song can contain over 50 different chords which many time more than any flamenco songs


Not to shoot you down or anything, but once you understand a little about music theory and how it applies to the equal tempered instruments that can make harmonies, like piano or guitar, you realize cramming 50 chords under a melody is not so impressive. More impressive to me is rhythm. I like bossa nova and many other rhythms from south america (bossa nova is only one). But as far as guitar playing goes, I have not encountered a more sophisticated style than the best in the flamenco world. I am glad you have discovered a new music form that inspires you, but don't be so quick to abandoned the hidden treasures that flamenco offers, even when it comes to harmonizing a melody. Hint: the beauty of modality.[;)]

Ricardo




Jon Boyes -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 4 2007 19:26:56)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alberto
The trouble is that once you get into flamenco you become a frog in a pond and you can’t see outside of this pound where a whole new world of colour and beauty, seductive moods exists that awaits you.


Well actually for this frog it was the other way round.

As someone who played rock, metal, blues then studied classical for several years, latin ( including Bossa and I still play one of Gilberto's most famous solo works)... when I finally got into flamenco I realised how much time I had been wasting on the other stuff [:)]

South American music has some cool rhythms, and Bossa is fine (though it has to be said, a little cheesy), and yep, you got some cool chords, but you know what? It never ceases to amaze me what the best flamenco players can do with ONE chord.

PS harmony cannot be syncopated [;)]

PPS we got cool chords too.




Alberto -> RE: A challenge!! (Apr. 5 2007 10:47:07)

Ricardo ,Jon Boyes

I don't mean to turn this into for OR against discussion. Both styles are truly wonderful in their own way. As long as you are playing music that makea you happy what more could one ask for?

Yes you are right bossa nova is my only opinion but Joao’s popularity MUSIC sales are in excess of over 30+ million and still counting world wide and this is not even taking most of Brazils into account so he has done something touch hearts of many.

PS Romerito Thanks for the information!

We have some really nice people here.

An excellent place to conclude this discussion




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