Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Full Version)

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Ron.M -> Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Jan. 14 2004 11:19:54)

Hola Amigos,
This morning, the postie brought good and bad news.
The good news was that my package of goodies arrived from Flamenco World. [:D]
The bad news came in the form of a brown envelope from the Inland Revenue. [:@]

Amongst my stuff was the CD/Book package "Understanding Flamenco" by Faustino Nuñez, which I thought sounded interesting after listening to the free clip on the FW site.
Let me say first that this is not a instruction manual for playing guitar, in fact only two pages of the book are devoted to "right hand technique" and even there the photographs demonstrating the hand position for tremelo and arpegio are mixed up. LOL!
Rather, it is designed as an quick overview on the basics and structure of Flamenco music.
At first, after having a quick flick through the little A5 size book, I was beginning to feel that I had wasted my 25 euros.
So I put on the CD.
Absolutely fantastic!!
Sñr. Nuñez takes us through all the major styles with demonstrations on the guitar by a certain Amir Haddad who is one hell of a player!
It's difficult to cover the whole of Flamenco music in just 66 minutes, but this CD goes a long way in presenting the rhythms in a clear and understandable manner.

I would say that it doesn't matter if you "know" flamenco rhythms already, this CD is a "must have" for any Flamenco Guitar student!

cheers

Ron




Phil -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Jan. 14 2004 17:09:53)

Thanks for the review, Ron. This is the book that I had mentioned in a previous post, along with another similar book that I can't remember the name of. I was just waiting for you to buy it so you could tell me if it was worthwhile. Could you also buy the other book and tell us what you thnk of it? And while you are in the spending mode, let us know what you think of the new PdL CD when it comes out.
Phil

Of course, I'm only joking (or am I?).




TANúñez -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Jan. 14 2004 17:13:41)

I have this one. It's pretty good.

So Phil, what was Moraito like? Nice, rude, down to earth? He's one of my favs and if I do make it down there sometime I must go to bar arco.




Phil -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Jan. 14 2004 19:09:23)

Tom said,
quote:

So Phil, what was Moraito like? Nice, rude, down to earth? He's one of my favs and if I do make it down there sometime I must go to bar arco.

I only spoke to him for about 15 seconds and he was extremely friendly and down to earth. (I really did make the comment about the Encuentro video.) He even made a point to say goodbye to me when he left.
Phil




Ron.M -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Jan. 14 2004 20:19:18)

quote:

Could you also buy the other book and tell us what you thnk of it? And while you are in the spending mode, let us know what you think of the new PdL CD when it comes out.

No problem Phil! It doesn't cost me anything anyway!
I came across this site www.card-scams-R-us.ru and have been submitting somebody elses card details (some Jackson guy who lives somewhere in Spain).
But I'll have to wait for a few weeks, since I try to limit myself to under 100 euros a month in case he gets suspicious!

Seriously though, it really is a good CD!
The thing I like about it most is the guy (Amir Haddad) is obviously a pro playing for dancers etc since his rhythm is really great.
It opened my eyes and ears to a lot lacking in my own playing.
It's one thing to learn compás, and another thing to learn rhythm.
I hear a lot of amateur flamenco guitarists who are certainly worthy of praise in their achievment of learning flamenco forms, musically and technically complicated falsetas and play perfectly in compás.
But rhythm is the El Dorado that seems to be missing from their (and my own) playing.

Amir Haddad doesn't sound a very Spanish name. (?)
Sounds more Arabic, Moroccan to me.
Anyway, the guy has "the aire" and "the rhythm".
It's certainly given me the kick in the pants I needed to get me off the Doldrums.

I definitely recommend it to any player.
If anyone is on a budget and thinking of getting "Cositas Buenas" then I'd say save your money and buy this one.
It'll definitely help you a hundred times more than Paco's album will!

(p.s I've sent both this and my last post to Flamenco World seeking commision on any extra sales. Wish me luck! LOL!)

cheers

Ron




Miguel de Maria -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Jan. 15 2004 17:37:17)

Bah! I'll get Cositas Buenas first. To support Paco and to see what he's been up to.

Although this CD sounds like a great buy. Rhythm is... very difficult.




sbarnard -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Jan. 16 2004 14:33:32)

Ron, can you convert and post a track or two for us?

Scott




Bob Arbuckle -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Jan. 16 2004 16:14:18)

Ron,

I went over to Flamenco World and listened to a few clips of the CD. It sounds interesting. I think I'll wait unitl its availble from Flamenco Connection.

Bob




Ron.M -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Jan. 17 2004 0:04:19)

Scott,
That's a bit "iffy"!
This CD/Book is a current/listable item.
I don't know about the copyright issues here.
I'm sure Mr. Nuñez would appreciate that it was done in appreciation of his work.
Anyway, I can upload a sample, but it's Simon as registered owner of this site who will have to bear the flack if somebody gets upset!.
I'd need some clearance here!

cheers

Ron




Phil -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Jan. 17 2004 0:24:36)

quote:

Ron, can you convert and post a track or two for us?

Flamenco-World has a very nice sample posted. I think if you'll listen to it there Simon will be saved from some headaches.
Phil




Escribano -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Jan. 17 2004 0:32:05)

You're OK for up to 30 secs per sample - I believe.




Jon Boyes -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Feb. 26 2004 10:31:28)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M
Hola Amigos,
This morning, the postie brought good and bad news.
The good news was that my package of goodies arrived from Flamenco World. [:D]
The bad news came in the form of a brown envelope from the Inland Revenue. [:@]


Earlier this week, my very own package of goodies arrived from Flamenco World. A Tomatito album (more later..) and the above book. Thought I'd add my thoughts..

As Ron has already said, this is a kind of flamenco rhythm reference manual. I have to say I have mixed views on it.

A lot of time is spent describing compas structure in terms of in terms of standard theory - time signatures and bars. So for example, the Solea compas consists of two bars of 3/4 followed by one bar of 6/8 if it were notated 'properly'.

This will be a good thing for people familiar with theory who want to get a grasp on flamenco, but I wonder how useful it is to people learning flamenco who haven't studied theory? I imagine a lot of the stuff about binary and ternary subdivision would be a little tough going, when its much easier to think of a twelve beat cycle with acents in the right places.

It has a few gems in it that do a geat job of clarifying little details that seem murky or poorly exaplained elsewhere.. Here's a good example - confused by Solea Por Bulerias? Think of it as a Solea por medio, but played with the aire of alegrias, thats the crucial difference.

That might sound odd at first, but when its played on the CD, its obvious. It makes all the difference to the palo and sets it apart from being simply a slow bulerias, or a fast Solea por medio, which is where I had it.

Another major plus is the dissection of rhythm WITHIN the compas itself. Most guitar methods cover compas, and discuss rasgeado tech in great detail, but I haven't seen this attention to the internal rhythm itself before -what you should be doing WITH the rasgueado to give the palo its true characteristics. I'm not just talking about accents (though they are covered), but the actual foundation rhythms of the rasgueados themselves. The is probably confusing if you can't hear the CD, but for me this is the main thing I'll get from the book. Its opened my eyes (ears) to Sevillanas and Fandangos, for example, and what I'm supposed to be doing with all that ras.

There are some very frustrating things about the package - like the fact that the book and CD don't follow each other! It would have been nice to have each track on the CD clearly labelled in the book, and have them both progress together, but there are things in the book not on the CD and vice versa, and the order does seem to jump around a bit.

Another frustration is the different ways of displaying the rhythms - in some sections the author does this just by notation which is fine by me - and in other sections he uses his own simple system which is described at the start of the book. It would have been better if both systems were used side by side for every example. He (the author) badly needs a good editor.

Other points of interest - there is an interesting little Cante reference section, some pointers on palmas variations in the main toques and a flamenco jargon buster (which has most, but not all, of the main spanish terminology).

The guitar technique section as Ron has already pointed out, is pretty worthless, and would have been better left out. And I agree that the guitarist is a great player. He makes the simplest rhythm really come alive, and is certainly capable of virtuosity as the background 'fills' demonstrate.

Thats about it after a few days with the book. If I come across any other gems/drawbacks, I'll post them here.
Jon




Patrick -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Feb. 26 2004 17:10:06)

I see that Flamenco Connection now carriies the book and CD for us in the US.




Miguel de Maria -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Feb. 26 2004 23:53:56)

Wow, Jon, your review is not quite as ebullient as Ron's! I remember a few weeks ago, Ron was happily listening to this Hussein guy and dissing Paco!
:)




Ron.M -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Feb. 27 2004 8:42:38)

LOL Mike,
I agree with everything Jon says.
I don't know musical theory so all this 3/4 3/8 stuff doesn't mean anything to me and is of no use to me. (A bit like explaining Spanish grammar to me in Dutch).
Anyway, I think it would be easier for anyone to think of the compas as a rhythmic cycle rather than in time signatures, except for say, a classical composer.
What I like is the demo of the rhythms (within the compas as Jon says).
I think this CD could clear up a lot of difficulties and confusion that students without a teacher may have.
The thing I found fun was his description of Sevillanas as being the opposite of Fandangos de Huelva. I'd never thought of that before, cool.
I think Amir Haddad (Note: not Saddam or Hussein or Bin Amir etc) is a brilliant player.
I wasn't dissing Paco. What I was saying is that this CD would be of more value to a student on a budget than Paco's new album.
Personally, and I'm not joking about this, I'd rather have lessons from Diego Amaya or Amir Haddad than PdL as they are probably "normal" people who have worked hard at the guitar and can focus in on other's difficulties.
The problem with these virtuoso types is that they can't understand why you are finding it so difficult. They say "what's the problem? You just do it like this......[:D][:D]

cheers

Ron




Miguel de Maria -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Feb. 28 2004 3:31:17)

How is Sevillanas the opposite of Fandangos de Huelva?




Ron.M -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Feb. 28 2004 10:25:05)

One is phase shifted 3 beats in relation to the other.
Hard to explain in words, you really need to hear Saddam playing it to appreciate it fully.[;)]




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Ron.M -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Mar. 2 2004 8:13:24)

Hi Andy,
You are spot on. He has played with Radio Tarifa.
Do you know him personally or just know of him?
Certainly from his playing, he could have been brought up in one of the Gitano barrios in Andalucia!
Incidentally, Radio Tarifa is coming to Aberdeen and Glasgow, Scotland in April!
So I might get a chance to see him if he's still with the band!

cheers

Ron




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Patrick -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Mar. 2 2004 20:52:09)

I just got the book-CD yesterday so I haven't had much time with it. I parrot everything from above. Ron you are correct, the guy can really play!

I do see merit in the way he breaks Solea down in 1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,1,2 ,1,2
The real gem is the CD not the book.




Ron.M -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Mar. 2 2004 21:01:15)

Yeah Andy,
It's almost like the guitar was an "in thing" in Spain.
At one time, if you came up with a cool falseta, then only other fellow guitarists would appreciate it and keep it to themselves.
In the opening up of Flamenco due to tour companies travelling Europe and the US, Japan and Australia etc, a different audience was stimulated in my opinion.
That audience was composed of the Folkies, the Rock Players and Classical Guitarists who had never heard the guitar played in that style before and were excited by this music.
It was gutsy, it was ballsy, it was hard to define, it contradicted a lot of musical theory in a cool way.
So a new audience was born, which is still a bit of a puzzle to those prima donna singers and dancers who would rather wish things to remain in the traditional Spanish hierarchy and are a bit miffed that things have rather got out of control since that upstart Paco de Lucia spoiled things.

I think it should be pointed out to those who still feel that way, that a great part of their success in reaching a large International audience and the financial benefits it brings, is largely through the work of the guitarists whose creativity and talent have provided an inroad to the intelligent, curious and musically aware folk outside Spain to investigate this Art more thoroughly.
OK, I know that this is nuts to say, but...
Take away the guitarist.
Who is going to come (say, in Europe or the US) to hear a concert of an unaccompanied Flamenco singer?
Who is going to come (say,in Europe or the US) to see an unaccompanied Flamenco dancer?
And how many are going to come (say,in Europe or the US) to hear a solo virtuoso Flamenco guitarist?
I rest my case.
Dancers and percussionists can come together to produce a spectacular show (such as Kate's Taller de Compás), but these shows are still slightly fringe of the mainstream idea of Flamenco as Cante, Guitar and Baile in my own view and I believe that Taller would benefit mucho from the addition of a very good guitarist, just my own view.
For my own part, if the Art of Flamenco had not had the element of guitar, then I must admit I would most certainly be amongst the people who are a bit confused between Flamenco and Flamingo.
All the singers and dancers I know of and appreciate now, I would never even have heard of.

cheers

Ron




Patrick -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Mar. 2 2004 21:22:11)

Ron,

I thought it was Flamingo!




Jon Boyes -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Mar. 3 2004 8:05:27)

Nice post Ron!

Back to this Amir guy, as I said before - great player - what is this band Radio Tarif like?
Are they Ketama-ish, or something diferent?

I saw one of their albums in Virgin yesterday and I nearly picked it up after learning about them here.
Jon




Kate -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Mar. 3 2004 10:25:56)

quote:

OK, I know that this is nuts to say, but...
Take away the guitarist.
Who is going to come (say, in Europe or the US) to hear a concert of an unaccompanied Flamenco singer?
Who is going to come (say,in Europe or the US) to see an unaccompanied Flamenco dancer?
And how many are going to come (say,in Europe or the US) to hear a solo virtuoso Flamenco guitarist?
I rest my case.


Hey Ron,

In Chicago Taller de Compás sang and danced flamenco every night simply with percussion as accompanimient, 16 shows in 20 days, great audiences, standing ovations, no guitar, pure flamenco.

But I do get your point too, and flamenco audiences are changing. I hear Jos Merce is going down very well and he has NO DANCE in his show, there was a big question mark with promoters whether or not people would come. They came.

saludos
Kate




Florian -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Mar. 3 2004 10:27:54)

Radio Tarifa is greate Jon, middle eastern flavour but still very much flamenco, (in my opinion) they do Tangos, SOlea por Buleria, Buleria.

They are alot closer to flamenco than Ketama

Ps: I inssist that this are just my personal views , i might look back over what i said here tomarow and completly change my mind :)




Ron.M -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Mar. 3 2004 10:36:06)

Hi Jon,
Hmm it's not exactly my cup of tea, but it's quite an interesting band.
Go to Flamenco World and listen to the Tangos del Aqujero track from their "live" Fiebre album. It's very good!
A lot of their stuff is very Arabic.
I'm not sure if I would go so far as to buy their albums, but I think it would be a good band to see play live.
Anyway it's the closest thing to Flamenco I'm likely to see this year up here in the frozen North!
Their concert schedule is at http://www.radiotarifa.com/ingles/index_ing.html

I see they are also playing Stornoway in the Hebrides.
(I don't know why I find that amusing LOL!)

cheers

Ron




Jon Boyes -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Mar. 3 2004 10:39:31)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
Radio Tarifa is greate Jon, middle eastern flavour but still very much flamenco, (in my opinion) they do Tangos, SOlea por Buleria, Buleria.


Bit like the PDL sextet then?

Jon




Florian -> RE: Quick Review on "Understanding Flamenco" (Mar. 3 2004 10:59:00)

To be honest Jon , i have never heard the sextet or seen it so I would have no idea how to compare it.




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