Rasguedo: which technique to use? (Full Version)

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krichards -> Rasguedo: which technique to use? (Feb. 22 2007 20:48:18)

First
Is there a correct way to play a rasquedo?

I have played classical for years but about 6 months ago i was inspired to try and learn flamenco. i bought Juan martin's dvd/books and have found it very hard and then i bought Juan Serrano's CD/book and found it very easy except for one problem. I can't make my rasguedo's smooth and percussive and especially i can't play a continuous resguedo.

i started with a i, m, a, e technique because that's what happenned naturaly. then i tried juan martin's e,a.m.i technique. I worked really hard at it but basically, i don't think it will ever be good enough because my little finger is too short and weak.
Juan Serranno uses a i, e,a m technique.
Now, before i start all over again with this technique can any of you guys offer me any guidance.

and secondly
I live out in the sticks and don't have a teacher. I'm thinking of maybe travelling some distance occasionally to take a lesson. I can get to Newcastle or Leeds within an hour or so.
I can get to Edinburgh or London within 2 and a half hours. Can anyone recommend a really good teacher who would be worth all that travelling?



Florian -> RE: Rasguedo: which technique to use? (Feb. 22 2007 20:58:50)

hi Kevin :-)

there are many rasquedo and strumming techniques, one for each effect desired, there is not just one correct technique and thats is.
but practicing the 4 and 3 finger stroke very slow getting power and sound out of each finger individualy as it hitts the strings evenly its a great start.

the angles u need to figure out on your own as each person has different angles that they find comfortible.

u can grow your nail to compensate for your finger length.

good luck



ToddK -> RE: Rasguedo: which technique to use? (Feb. 22 2007 21:21:30)

Understand that 6 months on the guitar, is pretty much no time.

Everybody has a short, weak pinky when they start out. Thats normal.
You build strength in it, by using it. It will come, but it takes time.
More than a year, at least.

Flamenco is one of the toughest guitar styles there is, and it takes
time. And plenty of prior guitar knowledge is definately more than useful.

I highly recomend taking another year or so to solidify basic techniques
on the nylon string guitar, before jumping into flamenco lessons.

Its the same in flamenco dance. Its commonly suggested one study ballet and tap dancing
before jumping into flamenco.

Stick with classical for a while, and get your basic skills down cold.
This sort of patient preparation will pay big down the road.



JasonM -> RE: Rasguedo: which technique to use? (Feb. 22 2007 21:36:44)

Two things to add to florians advice. Getting good percussive sounding strokes takes a while. You have to build up a lot of strength, dexterity and flexibility. It will come in time with practice. After six months of practicing rasgueado, I thought my fingers couldn't possibly get any stronger. But they did. Another thing that helps is a good flamenco guitar with low action. That makes a difference.

Second. A lot of modern players don't use the pinky for that reason. They play amii, where the second index is an up stroke. Same for continuous. A good practice tip for continuous rasq is to practice playing in triplets. Count 1,2,3... for each down stroke. The a or e finger must recoil while the previous finger is making its stroke. Again, using the pinky is a lot harder.



Hugh -> RE: Rasguedo: which technique to use? (Feb. 22 2007 21:56:17)

Hi Kevin. I've also been using the Juan Martin book. I started at the end of sept 06.
I too (like everyone else) find the pinky a major problem.
I dont really think there is anything wrong with JM's way of doing rasquedo's in the book. I am finding them quite strong now, although the pinky is still pretty weak.
However, It is much much stronger than it was at the start, and I fully expect it to be fine as time goes by. I thinks his book is pretty good for someone like myself, (who has played guitar all my life) to take up this style of music. I dont know how someone with little or no knowledge of guitar would fair though.
As I said on another posting in here, the book and the advice on here is really helpfull I find [;)]
Stick with the book and I think you'll do fine, as long as you put the time in.



Thomas Whiteley -> RE: Rasguedo: which technique to use? (Feb. 22 2007 22:40:14)

quote:

can any of you guys offer me any guidance


My advice is to find a teacher for at least a few technique lessons. I started playing when I was very young. A few of my older students have a hard time with technique. Others do well after a few months. It really depends.

Relax your hand – do not force it or use too much pressure. That is advice to help you from injuring your hand. Go slow and even. Do not worry about speed – it will come. Try a fingernail length that is equal to the tips of your fingers or a bit less. Nails that are long can be a problem.

There are many rasgueado techniques. Use what you like that gets the job done. I have some information on my web site about 101 rasgueados. There are many fine DVD’s about technique. You can learn a bit from each one. Emulate a DVD or CD.

There is a book by one of Juan Serrano’s students “Art Of Rasgueado” by Ioannis Anastassakis. Try to perfect one rasgueado at a time. Understand why any specific rasgueado is used and how it should sound.



Florian -> RE: Rasguedo: which technique to use? (Feb. 22 2007 23:15:24)

quote:

Its the same in flamenco dance. Its commonly suggested one study ballet and tap dancing
before jumping into flamenco


oh really ? I ve never heard that before ? [:D][;)]

if anything flamenco try to brake all the habbits a dancer picks up in ballet because its too light and pretty , flamenco dance is more raw heavy and into the ground.

ballet is more up into the air. flamenco is more grounded
no flamenco dance teacher sends anyone away to learn classical or tap dancing before returning to flamenco. imo

if u wanna learn to dance flamenco i would say take flamenco dance lessons.



Ricardo -> RE: Rasguedo: which technique to use? (Feb. 23 2007 3:24:04)

Work with a metronome, not too fast at first. Start easy, ami first. takadum, takadum, etc. Then try ami-i up. Digidydum, digidydum, etc. Then do the same rhythm, but with pinky: eam-i, eam-i. Then 4 notes to the beat. eami-i up. takatakdum, takatakadum, etc. Don't try to do a continuous rasgueado right off the bat. If you don't feel the rhythm you wont control the sound. Work with little pieces of rhythm. remember the second "i" in a sequence is up stroke:

amiiam-i. amiiam-i. &ah1e&ah2, &ah3e&ah4, etc.
amiiamii-i. amiiamii-i. 1e&ah2e&ah-3, 1e&ah2e&ah-3. Etc. Then same rhythm with pinky:
eamiieam-i. eamiieam-i. again it's 1e&ah2e&ah-3. 1e&ah2e&ah-3. Notice the i "upstroke" happens on beat 2 of this pattern. don't worry about a weaker sounding "e" finger or whatever, just concentrate on producing that rhythm. Eventually you build a uniform sound.

Anyway, I think of these as simple rudimentary rhythm excercises, and the rhythm helps train your fingers. You can keep doing different combinations are adding repetitions to your rhythm practice, until you cover most of the basic patterns you encounter in actual flamenco context. Hope it helps.

Ricardo



Per Hallgren -> RE: Rasguedo: which technique to use? (Feb. 23 2007 6:11:46)

I have tried for three years to develop the strength in my pinky, and it has gone stronger. Some more years and it will be fine eventually. The only problem is that it is so short that I can't reach the strings without giving a strange angle to the whole right hand when playing rasguedo. I have tried to grow a longer pinky nail but besides it is not enough compensation in length it cause problems too. My question is if it is not better to exclude the pinky and try to develop different and powerful rasguedos with my other fingers that are (quite) normal.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Rasguedo: which technique to use? (Feb. 23 2007 7:37:18)

A lot of modern players never use pinky.. Gerardo Nuñez sais in his DVD that he doesnt use it.

I like the sound you get when using pinky, i like the quintuplet (spell?) feel that you can get by using all fingers.
I also, for some things, not always, like this old school rasgueados that does not sound like the fingers are beeing spit out of the hand. This round and soft Bulerias and Alegrias rasgueado that you hear on older recordings.

All in all, the more you study, the more you learn, and when you learn one rasgueado, it helps devellopping another.



krichards -> RE: Rasguedo: which technique to use? (Feb. 23 2007 18:09:22)

Thanks everyone
I realise now that there is no single way and of course you're right, there's no substitute for hard work.

I think I'll try to find a good teacher as well, even if i only have an occasional lesson. There are so many things i need to learn about the different palos.
I'm used to reading from a manuscript and flamenco has more improvisation i guess?

Anyhow, I'm new to this forum and i think i can learn a lot from you all.
thanks guys



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