RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
- Discussions: http://www.foroflamenco.com/default.asp?catApp=0
- - Lutherie: http://www.foroflamenco.com/in_forum.asp?forumid=22
- - - RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one??: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=56895



Message


Serafino -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (Apr. 5 2007 17:02:54)

I know someone who knows Paco very well (professionally and personally for over 30 years) and indicated that Paco hasn't been shy with regards to repairing, refretting, etc., any of his working guitars (he has 60-70 in his collection evidently). The only ones that remain untouched are older historic Santos, Barberos, etc. (i.e. originals) which while almost unplayable (from wear) are kept historically unaltered. Evidently, he's repaired and refretted his Condes numerous times.

I recently had the chance to play one of Paco's old guitars, a Brazilian Rosewood negra. Very low action.

BTW, the VC line is a simple licensing deal. So the rosette is probably modelled after vs. a basis for any modifications or indication that he's playing one on tour. That's not the case IMO.




JBASHORUN -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (Apr. 5 2007 17:53:05)

WOW! 60-70 Guitars?! and Santos and Barbero ones too? I knew the guy was rich, but that's some collection! he must have almost as many as Jim Opfer!!! [:D]

But I understand the repairs... If I played like paco I'd want most of them to be in playable condition too.

Jb




Jim Opfer -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (Apr. 5 2007 20:06:54)

Oooch!




Serafino -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (Apr. 5 2007 20:40:05)

Are you guilty as charged Jim? [:D]




Anders Eliasson -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (Apr. 6 2007 7:44:17)

quote:

I knew the guy was rich, but that's some collection!


How much do you think that famous flamenco players pay for their guitar colection?




JBASHORUN -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (Apr. 6 2007 12:52:38)

quote:

How much do you think that famous flamenco players pay for their guitar colection?


You mean he gets them for free? Thats a neat arrangement!

Jb




Ricardo -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (Apr. 6 2007 16:23:28)

Or at a big discount. Reyes said in an interview that Vicente had to wait in line as long a everybody else for his guitars. He did recommend Vicente order 2, because if one had an accident, he would not let Vicente cut in line!![:D] Nunez also waited for his guitar a long time. As far as I know, Nunez paid for all his guitars except for the Robert Ruck, which he considered a great honor since he had never been given a free guitar before. Nunez also found an old Barbero in a dumpster which he had restored! I would bet that Paco has a couple free guitars in his collection, and also several he paid top dollar for.

Ricardo




Serafino -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (Apr. 6 2007 16:37:58)

It depends on the luthier. Some will willingly, given the promotional value, give a free guitar to an artist so that they can enjoy the association, no matter how tenuous in terms of the instrument being used for recording or performance.

On the other hand, others tell everyone to wait in line. I heard a story about Arcángel Fernandez and Paco along the same lines ....




jshelton5040 -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (Apr. 6 2007 23:02:59)

I offered a guitar to Manuel Lopez-Ramos at no charge but he insisted on paying for it (what a classy guy). To me it was an honor to build a guitar for a player of his stature. The Maestro died when we were just starting his fourth guitar. That guitar is now going to one of his students.

Building for the best players is what all luthiers dream about (or should).

John Shelton




Anders Eliasson -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (Apr. 7 2007 7:37:28)

quote:

Building for the best players is what all luthiers dream about (or should).


Yes of course, but we all have bills to pay[&:]




avimuno -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (Apr. 11 2007 7:04:40)

Find this picture of the side of the Conde.... Those stripes seem very unusual and unique. It's hard to believe that another guitar, even of twin, might have the same patern.. but i might be mistaken.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px




Arash -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (May 19 2013 21:38:57)

bump![:D]

Maybe interesting (and don't know if this was posted before): just saw this at Mundo Flamenco's website.

http://www.mundo-flamenco.com/en/gitarren-gebraucht/355-gitarre-paco-de-lucias-unverkaeuflich




Ruphus -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (May 20 2013 9:31:42)

Talking old ones:
Anyone know what builder´s was the blanca Paco played in his old kitchen videos form the sixties?

I always think of it as the best sounding I´ve heard him play.

Ruphus




orsonw -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (May 20 2013 9:54:46)

quote:

Anyone know what builder's was the blanca Paco played in his old kitchen videos form the sixties?


Conde





Ruphus -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (May 20 2013 11:59:13)

Can´t see videos from here, but thanks for the hint, Orson!

Ruphus




tele -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (May 20 2013 12:16:17)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

Talking old ones:
Anyone know what builder´s was the blanca Paco played in his old kitchen videos form the sixties?

I always think of it as the best sounding I´ve heard him play.

Ruphus


How can you not recognize the media luna headstock shape?

I think he should play blancas a bit more... Such a nice sound




Ruphus -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (May 20 2013 12:34:55)

At the time when I saw the videos I had no clue of headstock signatures, yet. - Eventhough having had a media luna in hands.
( And am still far from telling most major shapes apart.)

Still can´t e.g. name most of Mercedes models either. ( Only ones I managed to memorize I think were the 280 SE and the 450 SLC, and now the SEL ... I think.)

Ruphus




Arash -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (May 20 2013 21:06:06)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

At the time when I saw the videos I had no clue of headstock signatures, yet. - Eventhough having had a media luna in hands.
( And am still far from telling most major shapes apart.)

Still can´t e.g. name most of Mercedes models either. ( Only ones I managed to memorize I think were the 280 SE and the 450 SLC, and now the SEL ... I think.)

Ruphus


280SE, had one 1984, great car, was like a ship, best for long trips, made 600.000 km and engine was still ok ;)

yep Condes are like Mercedes [:D]

Also seams like those years were best (for both) [:D]




Ruphus -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (May 21 2013 0:17:11)

I had the pleasure of driving a tuned one from time to time, funnily quite around same years ( built maybe in 1982 or so ). That thing really had some torque and the sound of the engine was quite to my taste too.

Lovely car!

Ruphus




constructordeguitarras -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (May 22 2013 1:32:11)

quote:

Assuming it IS the same guitar, how difficult is it to RE STAIN a guitar top like that... and why would he do it for cryn out loud??? Wouldn't it involve sanding off a significant amount of wood from the top, changing the sound?


I have found that the finish on a top can be sanded off (by hand) using 320 grit with oil lubricant; it kind of stops sanding when the wood is reached. Then the oil can be washed off using a naptha soaked rag. And I think the color was in the finish, not a stain below the finish. Why wouldn't he want to refurbish a guitar that he liked?




pjn -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (May 23 2013 4:59:06)

Greetings --

Sabicas walked in to the American Institute of Guitar on 54th Street unannounced on the Friday before he passed, in one of those loud plaid suits of his, wig somewhat askew; I was there as usual with Dennis Koster and Andy Nitkin, who ran the place, some assorted students and teachers.

The Maestro seemed disoriented, said he'd misplaced his keys and couldn't get in to his apartment; he lived around the corner on 8th Avenue, in a modern doorman building, so probably could have been let in with the "house copy."

At the time I had just been smitten with flamenco, although I was at the AIG doing our little publishing venture; and I was close to Dennis at that time, who was quite close with Sabicas -- so I got to play about 40 seconds por Garrotín with the Maestro before he asked for someone to accompany him home. A young Latin guy who was studying with Dennis was chosen, and out the door they went arm in arm.

An hour later the kid was back -- he had found the keys in Sabicas' pocket (where they had been all along), had gone upstairs and gotten the Maestro comfortable. There were guitar cases around.

Over the weekend the stroke happened, and he passed in the hospital. So there was ample opportunity for someone who knew where he lived, and that he wasn't at home, etc.; but Sabicas had a wife and daughter (who looked very much like him, poor woman lol). They were on the scene when he passed and it's quite possible it was they who grabbed the instruments. Also, Sabicas' brother Diego was very much around and for sure would have been aware of the instrument situation -- I'd ask Dennis what he knows if we were in touch these days.

OK that's it -- just a bit of history for ya.

Cheers, Jared




constructordeguitarras -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (May 27 2013 13:28:02)

quote:

Ever heard or made a top replacement ? I'm curious to know if it's possible...


I have heard of a top replacement, done by a luthier on a guitar he built and he also builds violins, so I would guess that he used hide glue, which would make it a little easier.




Ricardo -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (Oct. 10 2014 18:50:15)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

bump![:D]

Maybe interesting (and don't know if this was posted before): just saw this at Mundo Flamenco's website.

http://www.mundo-flamenco.com/en/gitarren-gebraucht/355-gitarre-paco-de-lucias-unverkaeuflich


Sorry for another bump here... That RD discussion about this guitar got me going on this subject again.
So here is the first incarnation of the same guitar in question w original honey orange finish. This 1982, I just noticed thanks to higher quality video. I used to think this is the same guitar used in 1980, but I noticed the outer ring of rosette is different. So I think Paco used his brothers guitar from late 79 through 1981 trio tours mainly, based on concert vids. So he used this "hated" guitar from 1982 on, 32 years. Check 3:03 on:
http://youtu.be/EL18xRpwUoI

In 1983 it's still orange in Carmen movie see 1:20:
http://youtu.be/TASLh0baWUc

And he had it refinished in Red I guess in 1984 (date is wrong on upload):
http://youtu.be/QD6NaHforRQ
Sound changed I think, but kept it same until 1997 it seems.




Arash -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (Oct. 11 2014 7:17:19)

seams like that mundo flamenco link has changed.
Here is the correct link with some pictures

http://www.mundo-flamenco.com/nc/en/box-special.html

The rosette in first two videos is definately different.




Ricardo -> RE: Paco's new guitar...same old one?? (Oct. 12 2014 19:27:06)

quote:


The rosette in first two videos is definately different.


Not the OUTER RING, and inner ring...it is the exact same guitar. THe inner portion of tiles were replaced with the Carrillo style PDL model guitars red diamonds tiles.




Page: <<   <   1 2 [3]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET