What palo is this? (Full Version)

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Wannabee -> What palo is this? (Feb. 4 2007 1:25:47)

Sorry for the dumb question, I think it's a buleria, but it's sounds different . Slower and it has an interesting lilt to it.



It's interesting to see Camaron playing the guitar as well.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 4 2007 3:10:23)

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Wannabee -> RE: What palo is this? (Feb. 4 2007 5:54:44)

Thanks, that does explain some things.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 4 2007 6:12:30)

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Ricardo -> RE: What palo is this? (Feb. 4 2007 7:32:19)

quote:

However, there have been recent discussions specifically the one about manolo sanlucar's "alegrias" that I don't necessarily agree with. If a Fandango is sung to the buleria rhythm it is NOT a buleria-it is a fandango por buleria.


Manolo's Alegrias did not have "cante" or "cuple" really. It was just a chorus. The differing view seems to be in regards to the proper "name"? I think specific letra vs the bigger picture is important too. Like, Camaron sings a bunch of bulerias letras from jerez, from Utrera, Extremadura, then does some popular song, some Pepe de lucia stuff, then ends with fandangos. Yeah of course there were all those specific letras, but OVERALL it is fine to call the whole performance "buleriaSSSSSS"... you know, to keep it simple.

One clearification, IMO, the SPEED of the buleria rhythm is not somehow related to the cuple letra. It was slow, but that does not mean cuple is always slow or something.

Romerito,
If a dancer intends to dance "Alegrias", but the singer choses to sing "Romeras" on the spot, do they need to make a special announcement or change in the program? Or if a dancer dances "Taranto", but the singer sings first cartagenera then Taranta, should the dance be called "Cartagenera y Taranta por Taranto"?[:D][:D]

Ricardo



Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 4 2007 7:46:30)

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Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 4 2007 7:52:35)

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Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 4 2007 8:02:26)

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Ricardo -> RE: What palo is this? (Feb. 4 2007 8:16:19)

quote:

But I was referring to rhythm. Puerta del principe is a buleria to me. Since the coro is a personal creation I wouldn't call it alegrias. You said the studio put those titles so whatever. That is just my view.

As far as speed, I assume you are addressing guitarbuddha because I didn't mention anything about tempo.


So you have a personal "speed limit" for Alegrias compas? Fair enough. Call it bulerias if you want. You asked earlier like "can anyone tell me why...", but if your mind is already made up, what can we do? I think of it as a fast alegrias, but alegrias non the less. It exists as a full composition that has the "aire" of the music that bridges Alegrias to bulerias de Cadiz, you know as it speeds up and "morphs" there is this ambiguous moment of "how am I feeling this beat now...".

Perhaps it is the phrasing he does, rasgueado patterns, Starting everything on "uno". I dont' know, to me it is all typical Alegrias stuff, just quick. The piece "Tercio de Vara" shows how his bulerias phrasing typically feels. 12 and 6 emphasis. Then there is a piece "de Muleta", which is a like a slow buleria cancion like Lole does in A minor, but the compas is the same feel as "solea por bulerias" or "alegrias". Again no palo name, but the idea that all these pieces are related compas wise is obvious.

The tempo thing earlier regarding Camaron was for Wannabe, who seemed interested... the original poster.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 4 2007 8:28:17)

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Mark2 -> RE: What palo is this? (Feb. 4 2007 16:09:10)

Yeah, that's alegrias to me as well-it's the aire and the guitar, even the choro. I don't get any bulerias feel from it.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 4 2007 19:12:08)

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Ricardo -> RE: What palo is this? (Feb. 4 2007 23:42:12)

Without repeating myself, Romerito, my main point is YOU ARE CORRECT, it has "bulerias" feel in the compas. There are plenty of bulerias phrases too, like when he moves that bar chord up 12-2-4-6, and starts phrases on 12, leads to the 12 and what not. Ole que ole que arsa y toma... etc, has bulerias feel. Of course everything Manolo is doing on that album is "modern approach". It is totally correct to think of it as bulerias.

I am just saying, I ALSO get what is "alegrias" about it, or why anyone would call it that. They are not mistaking it for Guajiras or Tanguillo, know what I mean? It is the whole cadiz vibe. The overall picture. Like if you played a slow alegrias, and sped up the end, you could play this stuff at the end of it. It is connected to alegrias in other words, in terms of style.

I think of it as "bulerias de Cadiz" which is weird for a guitar solo to me since that is such a specific type of letra. But if we are having a juerga, and folks are taking turns singing letras of bulerias de Cadiz (dicen que van a poner...ay caray, etc), we could jump in between letras with this chorus (tran trabili trabili tran tran tran...la sal de cadiz...etc) and any falsetas would go along these lines. No one would do a bulerias de jerez for example, or change to phrygian or minor. So my point...because of the connection of this "aire" to Alegrias, I totally forgive the "generalization" of calling "alegrias" instead of the more specific "bulerias de Cadiz".

OK?

Ricardo



Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 5 2007 0:48:59)

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