Ricardo -> RE: chord list (Feb. 6 2007 5:08:26)
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quote:
Ricardo surely my last post makes it clear that I know this. Please read it again. The organisation of tones in the Major scale and the Ionian mode ARE identical. Surely this use is justified. Hmm, I guess I don't get what you mean. The use of terminology is justified? It seemed clear to me you were infering Ionian music and major key music are the same, since they have the same notes in the scale. Sorry if I got that wrong. My point was that you (meaning any one reading actually interested in what we are talking about?) should not confuse the terminology, since "ionian" implies modality, ie, no real harmonizations or progressions, and "Major" implies progression of chords that establish a key, requiring a V-I somewhere. No doubt I understand you know the notes of the two scales are Identical. Just the scales alone, the terms are interchangeable. But it is when applying them to harmony that you have to becareful with meaning. Again, my microscopic focus, rather than big picture. Some folks think of ii-V-I in G major is A dorian-D mixolydian-G ionian. This is not false. But if you go further and just say it is ALL simply G ionian, that is the point I say is not the best description. It is better to say it is ALL G major. The modes have to be more focused if you are going to use the terms to relate scales and chords. Your Old lang Syne example is a good way to learn how to hear how harmony colors melodies and affects mood. But it is still a rather tonal approach. I suggest some other ideas to go along with it. Lets say Old Lang Syne is in C major. Chords I-V-I-IV are C-G-C-F, right? Ok, rather than reharmonize each chord with something else (up a minor third, down a third, up a second diatonic), Just play the whole song over a Dm7 chord, never change chords. Now the melody is no longer "major", it is Dorian. Now play the entire melody over F maj7. Now the melody sounds Lydian. ETC. That is the modal approach...no progressions. Of course there are some safe ways to use other chords that still maintain the "modal" sound, but too many other chords start to make the tonality sound ambiguous. Of course any dominant chord will make the piece sound tonal again. How about Am-E7-Am-Dm. That changes the tune to the key of A minor, the relative minor. But you can make it sound Aeolian instead, just by making the E chord minor. Anyway that is sort of what I am getting at with making the distinction between modes. The bi-tonal thing, I see your point, and that is why I said rhythm plays a big part when vamping over two chords, to becareful not to lose the mode you want, for the sake of the other chord. It is safer to first learn modes with only ONE chord, to really drive the point home, or have a bass pedal not change under the two chords. Another VERY important point you made regarding the 7th scale degree being omited. I realized the importance one note makes for coloring the overall mood a while back. If you have the C#, or C natural, you have completely different vibe. Deliberately avoiding that note introduces ambiguity, which I guess is the point. But it is not just that ONE note. The reason the note is so important is because that note makes a tritone to another note in the scale. That is the real "color" relative to tonic. C#-G or C-F#. You can't avoid creating that relative sound to the whole music picture. But look at the other two notes. If you avoid one of those notes instead, you have a similar ambiguity to the key. Lets say you have C natural in your melody, but no F# or F natural. Your song could be D minor (dorian) based or D major (mixolydian). So it is the tritone interval, one of the two notes, that helps establish your overall mood relative to tonic, and when you change key by a 4th or 5th, you are changing one of the two notes of the tritone, or rather shifting it's relative position to the song. In effect, you "change key" however briefly, by adding an accidental "for color". Adding an accidental, ANY accidental to a scale with at least 6 notes, creates a tritone to some other note. That goes back to the importance of the modal exercise I posted originally.[;)] You learn exactly how to brighten or darken your "mood" by focus on one or two important intervals. So it looks like we are in agreement on everything, just adding some stuff to your ideas. Oh, except for the Ionian-Major thing. But maybe I cleared it up this time? Ricardo
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