what is the best method ? (Full Version)

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Guest -> what is the best method ? (Jan. 25 2007 19:43:35)

what is the best method ? i ve had lately the encuentro dvd of pepe hebichuala it needs alot of effort and it made me ask my self a question .what is the best method that i can buy ?? i mean it takes your hand from beginner level to the lets say 1st step to be profesional , i think its usefull to share experiance all of you guys.



Ricardo -> RE: what is the best method ? (Jan. 25 2007 20:42:50)

I don't know of any method like that, all though I guess that is the idea of a method. The problem is, there is no real "easy" flamenco. Just strumming the basic compas can be a challenge for anyone. I have beginning students that can do it, where as a seasoned classical master would not be caught up to my beginners if he took up flamenco today. So, how can one make a method of "graduating" things in flamenco? I have thought a lot about it tried many approaches with different students, and conclude it is just not so easy. A beginning student that has compas, and only knows how to strum the compas for the main palos, and one simple falseta each, is actually ready to try to accompany dance class, and soon after that play gigs doing that! Other students want to learn challenging falsetas or complete pieces, and don't have playing for dance class as a goal, and could spend years just on basic techniques.

I think it is important to be inspired. There are only a handful of players that really inspire me with their instructional vids. They tend to be more advanced too, which is a shame, because for me that is the "real" technique that beginners need to start learning. I dont' want to bad mouth any other teaching methods, but I don't see the point of dumbing down the basic bulerias compas strumming for example, like I have seen so many times. Or players showing the "basics" but they are ultimately not so great themselves as players.

If you are a visual learner, I recommend the vids of Encuentros, any player that is your favorite. Nuñez is especially good at demonstrating basic elements of technique. Of course his pieces will be challenging, but you dont' need to learn complete pieces to play flamenco, no matter your level.

Ricardo



duende -> RE: what is the best method ? (Jan. 25 2007 20:54:08)

I would say Gerardo Nuñez is the best i´ve seen so far.
Of course the pieces will be way out of most beginners skill but i think he shows good techniques in a good way.

Also Oscar Herrero have some vids where he does techniques slowly.

for knowledge of palos i would get Merengue, but i would NOT borrow his technique

Also i would suggest getting a good classical book like pumping nylon.
it got good stuff on tremolo,arpegio etc etc



legrec -> RE: what is the best method ? (Jan. 25 2007 21:02:15)

quote:

i mean it takes your hand from beginner level to the lets say 1st step to be profesional


Doublekk2, I'm not a pro player and even don't want to try to be one so I'm probably not the best guy to say something here but I don't think ANY method will be able to bring you from beginner to "1st step" pro level (even if this is rather unclear by itself for me).
I've eaten all the methods around me since 3 years, and can't consider I'm at the 1st step of being an "intermediate" player [:D].

What I want to say simply is that for me the two main things are :
- "Hard work" is one key (with the pleasure notion in it, not only the "no pain, no gain" thing) - like playing 6 hours a day during several years.
- Getting into a "full" flamenco environment is another one : Listening a lot to flamenco, taking lessons, learning from lots of different methods available, meeting and gigging with lot of people, accompagning, composing, trying to make a living with playing, recording, teaching etc.
The pro player here will tell better than me, but I think if you're able to do a little bit of all these, constantly during several years, then you'll be able to play at a pro level. But not by focusing on one single method.

So, some methods can be better than other ( I will rejoin Ricardo and Duende with the Encuentro series. And perhaps Oscar Herrero also, because there is a lot of these now). But in my personal opinion, I feel it could be a little misleading or frustrating if you're in the position of thinking that learning from a method can "bring" you to pro "entry level".
But I don't want to say at all that you'll never be a "pro player", if you want to become one. I'm just saying that in my opinion, a method can't bring you to that level, if taken alone. But for sure, it depends a lot on what you understand by "pro level" : is it just a "very good playing" (at home), or the ability to gig, make concerts, accompagny baile&cante, to make a living ?
Pro players here : how did you get there ? (Oh no, I'm relaunching the "what it needs to be a pro player" thread ! Forget my question... [:D])



Guest -> [Deleted] (Jan. 25 2007 21:41:09)

[Deleted by Admins]



TANúñez -> RE: what is the best method ? (Jan. 25 2007 23:08:24)

Like Romerito said, not every great player can teach and some players who aren't "great" but good can teach very well.

From the Encuentro videos, I like the Núñez and Serrano ones. Serrano's is geared for the beginner. Gerardo's material isn't for the beginner but he goes over just about every technique from the basic to the more advanced and this a beginner could really use. Also, the Merengue video is specifically for the beginner. His material is pretty traditional but IMO, this is the best material to start with.

Anything out there will help though. Graf-Martinez, Juan Martin, Herrero. If you don't have a teacher, any of these will get you going.



DoctorX2k2 -> RE: what is the best method ? (Jan. 26 2007 2:39:37)

I've got my hands on a lot of ditactic stuff. Even though I only started playing guitar in August, the only method I found that the technique is well explained with smooth progression is Graf-Martinez books with DVDs. He plays every exercise at normal speed then slower speed with on-screen tabs. So you can play along with the slower version and catch the aire then you can just practice until you can play the normal speed version. The exercises incorpors a lot of stuff that is going to be used in later exercises and most of them can be mixed freely.

I got Manuel Granados's stuff and La Guitarra Flamenca of <Insert guitarist name here> and of course Juan Martin's method, but none of these was as smooth and fun to learn so I decided to stay with Graf-Martinez's until I'm throught the second volume.



Guest -> RE: what is the best method ? (Jan. 26 2007 2:45:45)

all of you are right TANúñez,romerito ,legrec,duende , Ricardo and doublekk2 oh thats me lol ....actually i like the word i gerec said if you wana be pro you ve to find a comunity and i dont ve this comunity
[:(]



Guest -> RE: what is the best method ? (Jan. 26 2007 2:57:43)

sorry forgot to mention doctor X2K2 ... [:D]



Doitsujin -> RE: what is the best method ? (Jan. 26 2007 8:22:19)

I think the best method is a mixture of all what you can find for beginners, some friends who have the same interest as you and you can push each other, some dance-classes where better guitarrist play and you can learn from them. Also workshops with pro-players are good, you can have serious correct answeres on every question.



Guest -> RE: what is the best method ? (Jan. 26 2007 9:09:35)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

I think the best method is a mixture of all what you can find for beginners, some friends who have the same interest as you and you can push each other, some dance-classes where better guitarrist play and you can learn from them. Also workshops with pro-players are good, you can have serious correct answeres on every question.

i wish i can do this doitsujin but i am living in egypt .....may be i can do this with the cleopatra ...lol [8|]



DoctorX2k2 -> RE: what is the best method ? (Jan. 26 2007 21:17:13)

I forgot to mention that Graf-Martinez's method is just nicer too beginners because it incorpors the basic techniques into simple falsetas. So instead of having to practice down the technique until you can play the falseta, you can directly practice with it. The problem with most other methods is the videos are almost useless to beginners... your eyes are always fixed on the book and playing speed in videos is often too fast (for a beginner), which forces you to use only the book with a metronome over and over until you can play along with the video or track. It removes a lot of feedback, which is very important to learn as quick as possible. Even though the material doesn't sound as great as in other methods, your technique will improve faster, IMHO. Anyways, once I feel my technique is good enough to play both G-M's volume, I'll jump on other methods and transcription to learn as much content as I want to.



Ricardo -> RE: what is the best method ? (Jan. 26 2007 21:32:29)

quote:

I have taught for years and haven't found anything I like for beginners. I usually teach teh way my teachers taught me. Get the basics. Anybody who loves flamenco should get the Encuentro series even if it is above their level. You can always steel bits and pieces.

Also remember, some good players suck at teaching. And some players that don't play that well have a knack for communicating how to play. The best teacher is one who guides you but knows when to let you figure out for yourself. That is the reall learning-when you can figure things out for yourself because a good teacher taught you to do that.

A great teacher is like a great accompanist.
He will push when you need it, hold back when you should figure out something for yourself. He will not be concerned with playing the greatest falsetas although he may be able to. He will know how to teach at your level.



Good stuff Romerito, I agree 100%.



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