Saddle making (Full Version)

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JasonM -> Saddle making (Jan. 14 2007 19:37:41)

How in the world do you guys sand these saddles to such perfectly straight dimensions? It seems super human to me. Or mabey I am overly confident or under estimating !

I just finished an attempt a making a carbon copy replacement saddle. Not my first saddle either. This time I told myself that I would be as patient as possible to get this right. I spent about 5 hours this weekend maticulously sanding and shaping the saddle blank with as much scrutiny as I could give it to the original. The copy didn't fit perfectly into the bridge slot, and turned out to be a lot higher when I strung up the guitar.

I used calipers to measure as I went along. I measured, removed a few molecules of bone and measure again. It looks Identical, but it isn't.

When I look at the original saddle, I am just amazed at how even it is, and how the break angle is so straight and perfect. How long do you guys spend on saddles? Mabey I just need to cut a few dozen more to get better?



Ricardo -> RE: Saddle making (Jan. 14 2007 20:23:23)

Use a machine.[;)] paco de malaga has a grinding wheel that cuts your bone down how you like it in seconds.

Ricardo



TANúñez -> RE: Saddle making (Jan. 14 2007 20:25:53)

Not hard at all. Here's a couple tutorials. They are based on steel strings but it's the same more or less.

Making a Saddle
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/MakeNewSaddle/newsaddle01.html

Lowering action on saddle
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/LowerAction/loweraction01.html

If you don't want to mess with it then just buy a new guitar from me and it'll have a new saddle [8D]



JasonM -> RE: Saddle making (Jan. 14 2007 21:28:23)

I followed that tutorial. Oh well. I guess I need more practice.

Yeah, I had paco de M help me set up a guitar before. I asked for a shim and he comes out with a 2X4. [&:]



TANúñez -> RE: Saddle making (Jan. 14 2007 22:06:43)

First, put your original saddle flush against the blank. Trace it and file down to the lines you drew. Do you have any files? For the height I put some course(sp?) sandpaper down on a flat surface and sand away at the bottom of the saddle. I then lay the saddle flat on it's side on the paper to thin down the thickness. You need some type of file and a vise to file the angle where the strings will hit or you can lay the saddle on the paper at an angle and file away this way. It's not as difficult as it seems. Like everything else, just takes practice.

If you don't want to mess with it, why not take it to Tom Rodriguez. He's not too far from you is he?



srshea -> RE: Saddle making (Jan. 14 2007 22:34:44)

http://www.fernandezmusic.com/Classical%20Guitar%20Set-up.html

This isn’t a tutorial as such, but I found this to be one of the more clear and helpful illustrations of the process (scroll down towards the bottom). I did it for the first time recently just using sandpaper and it worked out fine.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Saddle making (Jan. 15 2007 8:16:15)

My most important tool for making things like saddles is an old fashion sanding board. You find a piece of totally straight multilayer laminated wood. (a thick one), and on this you glue under pressure a big piece af high quality sandpaper 80 - 100 grit.

Mine is a few years old and still work wonders. Its around 30 x 50 cm and I use it for all things where accuracy is important like final sanding the elements of the headjoint and heel. I found it all in the streets here in my village, a piece of wood that they had cut off from some construction and a belt from a drum sander that was destroyed at one edge. I have a 40 grit on the other side to rough other things.

Take care of your nails....



JasonM -> RE: Saddle making (Jan. 16 2007 21:35:59)

Good advice guys, thank you.

What surprising to me, is how close I was able to get my new saddle to my old one-- but when I fired it up it didn't FEEL like the original. It felt a lot higher yet it measured a little lower at each string. One thing I found was that the little slots that I filed for the bass strings were about 1 mm off. So I slid in the saddle more without realizing it. 1mm precision is hard to get when you mark it with a pencil by hand. So, this had the effect of making the treble strings ever so slightly higher.

I almost had it perfect, but I lowered the basses just a hair too much. It IS RUINED! MY MASTERPEICE!

Call me crazy, but I think I can really feel/hear a difference between making ultra fine adjustments. Ricardo would tell me that it is my imagination, but I think it is my sensitivity... that the women moch.



Hugh -> RE: Saddle making (Jan. 16 2007 21:45:40)

I did mine a while back Jason. Once I got it down near to where I wanted it. I had to set it up on the guitar a few times, take another tiny bit off, til I got it right. It takes time thats all, and a fair bit of pissin about with it.
As previously mentioned. I put insulating tape over my nails before I started. If I had'nt I'd have been right down to the skin with all the sanding I did [&:]
Its a messy job, but well worth the effort [:D]



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Saddle making (Jan. 17 2007 6:46:37)

quote:

One thing I found was that the little slots that I filed for the bass strings were about 1 mm off


Why do you file little slots for the bass strings???????????



JasonM -> RE: Saddle making (Jan. 17 2007 20:34:21)

I don't know... In all the guitars that I've owned the luthier filed grooves for the bass strings. This includes the saddle I was trying to copy. I suppose they aren't mandatory, but provide a little help with keeping the strings from sliding around?

By the way... do you remember Charles Vega from F.T? He lives like 15 min. from me. Unless he moved that is. But I don't know what happened to him. I'd love to get some lessons from him.



Ricardo -> RE: Saddle making (Jan. 17 2007 21:34:01)

quote:

In all the guitars that I've owned the luthier filed grooves for the bass strings. This includes the saddle I was trying to copy.

[8D] Probably not Jason. The grooves are where the bone gets worn away from changing the tuning, changing the strings, and simply from playing a lot. Happend to all my guitars too, but the bones started out straight. The grooves can make it so the action lowers a bit, and the strings can break at the bridge easier. Even the treble strings can wear grooves. In anycase, when grooves appear, I think it is time to change the bone.

Ricardo



JasonM -> RE: Saddle making (Jan. 17 2007 22:40:16)

Really!? I never thought the grooves would have been caused by wear because of the shape. I would expect the grooves to be wider and more scalloped from wear and tear. I always assumed these grooves were cut by the edge of a file and sanded to remove sharp edges because...well...thats the way they looked to me [:D]

Welp, I guess its time I cut a new saddle for my guitar [:D]



TANúñez -> RE: Saddle making (Jan. 18 2007 2:05:27)

Ricardo's right. I was thinking the same thing when I read your post. You notice it on the basses because the basses are the wound strings. Email Charles and see if he may be able to help. guitarrasvega at earthlink dot net Tell him I said hello.



JasonM -> RE: Saddle making (Jan. 18 2007 21:00:20)

Thanks for the address.

One more question. I had all of the strings off the guitar for a few days while I cleaned the fretboard and put some new machines on. I noticed that the string tension feels higher. Has my neck bent back a little? If thats a possibility, how long should it take for it to spring back. Its been a 4 days since I put the strings back on.

Thanks again,

Jason



DavidT -> RE: Saddle making (Jan. 19 2007 16:23:48)

Anders,

How the hell you protect your nails with the work you are doing? [:(][:(]
A lot of fingers involved in your job. You probably can't even wear gloves with most of your maticulous tasks?

And yet your playing sounds great!!!![:o][:o]



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