Moron style - Tabs material ? (Full Version)

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legrec -> Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 5 2007 16:48:20)

Hola

I want to take the plundge deep into the "Moron style". The sound sample of Carlos Beccera Guerrero, brought by flamencoguru in the upload section really blows me away. It's exactly the style that I'd love to play for solo guitar.

I've begun to tab this song (Aire Fresco) but I'm not so happy with my transcription, it's too hard for me.

So my question is : does anyone could tell me where I could find some "moron style" related tab material ?
Or does someone would like to help me tabbing Aire fresco by Carlos ? (I can give what I have now in Guitar pro format)

I've already found some falsetas from Diego del Gastor, in the Duende Flamenco series from Claude Worms, but can't find anything else. I know there are also the transcriptions at www.gypsyflamenco.com/ but 110$ is a bit much for me now.

Thanks a lot in advance-



Guest -> [Deleted] (Jan. 5 2007 17:09:47)

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legrec -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 5 2007 17:21:45)

Ok, so how can I rise your score, Romerito ?
(i've never understood how this score thingy works, but you deserve a lot of points...)
Thanks !

PS : could you just - only if you have some time, if not it's no problem-, try to tell me if Carlos was using a "normal" tuning or an alternative one ?
I don't know why but I can't find the "good" fingering and notes for his extract, and I'm beginning to believe that's because of the tuning ??? but i still doubt a lot about this...For me it's normal tuning, with no cejilla..

You will find the post and the extract by typing "moron" in the search field, with "all topics" selected.
Thanks again
Suerte y salud



Doitsujin -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 5 2007 21:57:44)

I have a general question. Isnt "moron" another word for "stupid idiot"? I heared that. Interesting to call a playing style like this. [:-]



legrec -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 5 2007 22:02:53)

Err...in fact Morón de la Frontera is a small village near Sevilla. Nothing to do with the english word moron. Hope nobody from Morón will read your post
[:D]



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Doitsujin -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 5 2007 22:34:15)

oh... thanks for the answere. [:D]



TANúñez -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 6 2007 1:35:31)

It's moron(idiot) if you don't include the ó. With the ó it's Morón! [:D]



Francisco -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 6 2007 1:51:24)

If I remember correctly, D. Gastor has a relative that lives somewhere in California who offers material for sale. I can't remember how to get to it, but I asked this question a while back, and in response someone linked the relative's (I think it might be a great nephew or something) website. I'll try to find that link.



legrec -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 6 2007 2:07:38)

Thank you Samwise, perhaps you're speaking about Agustin Rios, one of Diego del Gastor nephew ? (Thanks to my friend Ted in California, who just gave me the info).
But I don't think he's selling transcriptions. The only reference to tabs my friend can give me is for the 110$ material I was speaking about in my first post (at http://www.gypsyflamenco.com/).
I would be glad to have this but will wait a little to have the dought.

So my first aim would be to transcribe the Aire fresco version by Carlos Becerra, that I really find "fenomenal" (Diego del Gastor feeling, but with a moden playing style). But a very knowledgeable man on this foro will perhaps do it...we'll keep you informed for sure...

I've read that old threat on the Moron style but it seems that in the end, there is not much Moron's transcriptions around. I can find some falsetas from Paco, Diego and Dieguito de Morón here and there, but not an extensive book on this style. Hmmm...perhaps it would be a good idea to throw to Alain Faucher, Claude Worms or whomever..

Tom : you're right, the ó makes the difference in Morón. I'm planning to go there next summer, since I'm really not far (I'm from the south of France).
As it seems you're a Morón afficionado (like Sendero if I don't mistake), how did you learned the style ? By playing along with the recordings ?



TANúñez -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 6 2007 4:52:00)

quote:

Tom : you're right, the ó makes the difference in Morón. I'm planning to go there next summer, since I'm really not far (I'm from the south of France).
As it seems you're a Morón afficionado (like Sendero if I don't mistake), how did you learned the style ? By playing along with the recordings ?


That's really all I play. I know a few things from some of the current players like Tomatito(my favorite), Moraito, etc.etc but there's something about the Morón style of playing that just grabs me and forces me to listen.

It's not very easy though I'll tell you that. It's very rhythmic driven with strong thumb work. If it's not played in a certain way, it won't really sound Morón. It's hard to describe. I have the material from GipsyFlamenco. It's the best material out there and really the only complete material. Ton's of stuff. Expensive but worth it if this is what you want to learn.

I watch Diego vids over and over and pic them apart to learn. I've also had the good fortune of knowing a few guys here in the States that studied with Diego back in the late 60's and they have told me everything I needed to know to have any chance of success at playing this material correctly.

I've gotten a lot of recordings of Diego recorded in private settings that I also study. So much to learn!!!

What I really like about this "style" is the rhythm. Especially the Bulerias. Carlos Beccera is one of the best I've heard. The guy is from Diego's birth place. Another guy who comes close to Diego is his grand nephew, Paco de Amparo. He's the guitarist for Son de la Frontera. IMO, he's the closest to Diego's playing. More than the nephews. Keep an eye out for the guitarist Daniel Mendez(Dani de Morón) You'll hear of him soon.

For the record, I have not learned this style but "trying" to learn this style. I'm from Texas, don't know how close I can get to being puro. [;)]



legrec -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 6 2007 13:48:18)

Thank you Tom.. It's really interesting. I will consider buying the extensive transcriptions.

For sure, this style only "seems" to be easy. Much more harder in fact...To keep the steady rhythm, the feel and the particular accents and fingerings...
In my opinion, I manage to come closer to Moraito for example than to Diego or Carlos Becerra.

I will try to learn this style progressively too. A trip to Morón could be a good thing and I think you can come close to being "puro Morón", even if you're in Texas !



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Thomas Whiteley -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 6 2007 17:27:14)

I have some material on my web site under Music\Bulerias and Handbooks\Bulerias. If you want to learn some interesting things about Bulerias then I suggest my Bulerias Handbook. It does not cost anything except your time. I use TablEdit for my music. The handbook has a PDF document which you should find useful.

Another source of information concerning Diego’s style of playing is Chuck Keyser.

http://users.aol.com/BuleriaChk/private/flamenco.html



Thomas Whiteley -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 6 2007 17:49:15)

quote:

Agustin Rios


Agustin lives in Oakland and teaches but does not sell any of Diegos material.

After giving a performance at the San Jose Flamenco Society, my wife and I were asked to join a friend of Diego’s the following afternoon. She gave a performance and we sat at a large table afterwards, with lots of people I know. The ladies name is Concha Vargas.

http://flamenco-world.com/artists/vargas/vargas.htm

She was with her husband, two sons and daughter. The youngest son picked a guitar that Freddie Mejia had loaned him and began to play Morón style Bulerias. He was very good and I asked his older brother, “Is Morón style still popular”? To which he answered, “No! My brother plays Morón style because it pleases our mother”!

I asked the oldest son, “What style do you play”? He said, “Blues”! [:)]



Francisco -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 6 2007 19:25:53)

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

Well, at least the mother has good taste![;)]



legrec -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 7 2007 11:54:44)

Thanks for the material and the story Thomas !

That why I often think that "extranjeros" (foreigners) always become at one point of history essential to the sake of one tradition : because the "natives" often drop their tradition, that they "trade" with another one (cultural assimilation).

Scottish people on the foro are goin' to kill me but a french expert in whisky once told me that the next interestings things will come from Japanese and other foreigns whiskies, and I must confess that I like very much some Japanese Whiskies, better than some old scottish brands which have "lost" some of their qualities (we have the same problem in France with wine...).
Flamenco is still vivid is Spain, but as far as I can see from France, old Spaniard flamencos are yet complaining that youngs don't care much about flamenco (most of them are into rock or techno). What pisses me off is that even if they don't care, they're still better than I am ! [:D]

I may be a young snob, but the fact that the Morón style is not still popular or "on the trend" makes me even more interested in it...



srshea -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 7 2007 23:16:12)

legrec,

I purchased Evan Harrar’s (the gypsyflamenco.com guy) Diego book as well as the rhythm lesson last year and I’m very happy with what I got. The question as to whether or not this material is worth the high price seems to come up pretty frequently, and I myself balked at the price before finally buying the stuff. Whatever reservations I had vanished once I got the package. The transcription book is quite long, 400+ falestas, I think) and it came with five CDs of Diego’s playing as well as a disc of Harrar playing the falsetas in the order they appear in the book. It’s true that this stuff isn’t cheap, but most flamenco transcription books aren’t: the Worms/Faucher books run about 45-50 bucks each- but when you consider the quantity and quality of the material involved I think it’s worth it. If you’re really serious about learning to play Diego’s music, not just picking up a few falestas here and there but really immersing yourself in the style, then this is as good as you’re going to find as far as self study goes. Start saving!

However, having said all that, I should point out that what you’re going to learn from the gypsyflamenco material (ideally) is how to play Diego’s stuff as he played it. If you want to play like Carlos Beccera in the sample that flamencoguru posted, I’m not really sure how far Harrar’s book is going to get you in that direction. To my ears that sample has a much different feel and rhythmic approach than Diego’s actual playing (the video clip that flamencoguru posted last summer is quite a bit closer, I think), which isn’t to say it’s good or bad, better or worse- just considerably different. Since you’ve already made plans to travel to Moron you might want to see if you can get Beccera’s contact info from flamencoguru and then try and make arrangements to meet up and study with him. Straight to the source. Ain’t no transcription book in the world that can beat learning from the guy who you want to play like!

Good luck.



legrec -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 7 2007 23:32:29)

Thank you very much for this long and elaborate answer. I will probably buy the gypsyflamenco transcriptions... Yes I can clearly hear that Carlos is not just imitating Diego, it's a modern approach of the style and I like it a lot !

Un saludo-



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srshea -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 8 2007 0:01:02)

I'm very impressed by Beccera's playing too. In fact, on the video clip there's a falseta he plays that I think I like even better that Diego’s original version. Sacrelige![:D]



flamencoguru -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 8 2007 3:36:16)

Hello everyone,

I'm glad you liked Carlos' playing. He is quite a guitarist!! He's even a better person. I hang out with him quite often when I go to Spain. About his playing and TABS. I talked to him about it and he said that he is not skilled enough musically to take on such a task and for fear of not doing it properly. He also said that much of it is just improvised. I'm sure you know, that's the way flamenco was meant to be played, in the moment. I forgot to ask him if he used a capo or not. About the key, he probably played it the typical bulerias fasion. A/B flat and E/F, por medio and por arriba respectively.

I know Alain Faucher has transcribed some of Diego del Gastor's materials.

Back to Carlos, When I go to Spain this coming summer I'll try to get more video footage of Carlos. I'm sure he'll love to do inspire more players. I'm really glad you enjoyed his stuff.

Take care, Errol



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TANúñez -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jan. 8 2007 4:07:03)

quote:

I'm very impressed by Beccera's playing too. In fact, on the video clip there's a falseta he plays that I think I like even better that Diego’s original version. Sacrelige!


Diego rarely played the same falsetas twice. They may sound the same in recordings but if you really listen closely, they are played differently. Diego had so many variations to similar falsetas and like flamencoguru said, a lot of it is improvised. It's all good!



fivealive -> RE: Moron style - Tabs material ? (Jul. 13 2007 15:53:36)

I was at the flamenco-world store in madrid a few months ago, and I asked about sheet music for Diego del Gastor - the guy working there mentioned Alain Faucher and I found a few (expensive) things under "various artists" on this site:
http://www.affedis.com/transcriptions.html

Also, the guy at the shop said there was a guitar school in New York founded by former students of Diego and that I should be able to find something there. Apparently there was (is?) an American military base near Moron and military people brought his music back with them. However, I didn't catch if he meant a physical school or more like a school of thought. Regardless, I've searched around and can't find it anywhere. There is one mention on this page but it isn't very specific:
http://www.elartedevivirelflamenco.com/guitarristas12.html



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