Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Full Version)

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Florian -> Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Dec. 26 2006 17:15:02)

Interesting intervew, u can sense the guys fustration just reading by it.

I think hes brilliant and deserves more credit, then again theres alot of guitarists in Spain who are brilliant and not getting the credit they deserve.


quote:

The reason I ask is because your professional activities are very broad, you have recordings, and yet it’s not easy to see you in Spain.

Yes, it’s funny, and I’m glad you ask, a lot of people say the same thing. Look at my previous record “Orillas”, which is a tribute to Arab culture and flamenco and was nominated for a Grammy, along with José Mercé, Diego Cigala, Serranito, was finally won by Pepe de Lucía. I’ve also got a prize from Madrid from the “Certamen Paco de Lucía”, and a prize from Jerez, I’ve got prizes that few people have. And what other foreigner was ever nominated for a Grammy in the category of flamenco? So it’s strange I still haven’t been able to offer my work here in Spain. And if you ask why, well I just don’t know. Sometimes I think it might be racism. Then other times I think, why should they call me when there are dozens in Spain who play really well, and it’s true there are some great guitarists. But no, I don’t really know the answer.
I suppose by “rascism” you mean because you’re not Spanish…

Well, maybe the word racism is a little strong, but we all know how the flamenco world is very closed, and not only that, I think it’s also a world full of uneducated people. It’s very hard to have a conversation with flamenco people. I also been in Jerez and played for everyone, Agujetas, Terremoto, Paquera’s family... So it’s all a mystery.
It sounds like you’re referring to the prejudice “if he’s not Spanish he can’t play flamenco”, which is what might be going through programmers’ minds…
Yes, but then those people aren’t doing their job, because if they were, they’d have to see I was nominated for a Grammy, and the music is right there for them to hear, and I’ve recorded with Duquende, with Montse, with Potito, Carles Benavent, Jorge Pardo, Moraíto, Manolito Sanlúcar, Chano Domínguez... I’ve also played with the Marseilles opera, the Bolshoi.... I’ve been around for years, I’m no newcomer, and this is a strange situation.




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Florian -> RE: Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Dec. 26 2006 17:39:46)

lol, sorry i quoted out of context for the shock value [:)]

but then hes goes on to make it even worst for himself by making some not very smart comments about the people in flamenco [8|]



xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Dec. 26 2006 17:42:55)

he's right, very much so...but still, this article is not about racism at all...
recently he gave two concerts in Budapest, i was fortunate enough to see both of them from the first row and they were amazing, after the second gig he was kind enough to sign cd's and i managed to talk to him a little, a very human being in the positive sense and i'm glad i got to hear him live...
i also wonder why he's not invited to play in spain?



Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 26 2006 18:06:36)

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duende121 -> RE: Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Dec. 26 2006 18:18:29)

quote:

quote:

also wonder why he's not invited to play in spain?

Hi,
racism is too strong as he said but the fact he is not a native spaniard from Andalucia deserves him, for sure, but he won greats prices and that shows that some flamencos are open minded..I do like his musicality and his sound, he has his own and that is great.



Mark2 -> RE: Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Dec. 26 2006 19:56:23)

The guy's a great guitarist..................



Kate -> RE: Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Dec. 26 2006 21:26:28)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xirdneH_imiJ
i also wonder why he's not invited to play in spain?


It may be that he asks for too much money. I know brilliant flamenco guitarists who are only paid about €50 for playing the peñas. Also if he does not live in Spain you would have to take his expenses into account which would be crazy in Jerez for example where the guitarist lives around the corner. If you need someone to accompany you you just want to call them and have them come over, not get on a plane and need hotels etc.

I dont agree that it is hard to have conversation with flamencos, I wonder why he thinks that. Its quite a generalisation to say that flamencos are uneducated. I know a flamenco dancer, who is gitana and a qualified lawyer, and my proffesor at university was Gitano, a flamenco singer wth two PHDs. I also know many who cannot read or write but are brilliant conversationalists.

Kate



Florian -> RE: Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Dec. 26 2006 21:30:35)

Yes kate, that wasent very smart on his behalf, i mean thats not gonna help his cause at all.

I gues u can feel the biternes from him, then again its hard not to sound bitter when you are saying what hes saying no matter how he says it, and it must have really bothered him to have gonne on record saying it.

Beeing that good and beeing that upset about it, i dont know why he dosent just move down there.

Ps. Kate, whats Emilio up to now ?



Kate -> RE: Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Dec. 26 2006 21:39:48)

Hi florian,

Yes he does sound bitter but saying this stuff out loud wont get him any closer to his goal, if he really wants to play Spain I dont know what is stopping him organising his own gigs/concerts. Perhaps he should blame his management instead, the idea that artists get invited to play is a fantasy unless you are Paco, most professionals have managers working like mad to get gigs.

Kate



Florian -> RE: Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Dec. 26 2006 21:46:22)

I agree , the idea that u wait for someone to invite u anywhere its silly, noone waits for the rest of the world, u go and hire venues and do your own thing.

but mibe hes refering to play for companies in Spain alongside the local artists but then hes snobbing his fellow french flamencos just as the spanish are snobbing him.


mibe "snobbing" is not the right word "understimating" "overlooking" whatever, u know what i mean.



Kate -> RE: Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Dec. 26 2006 22:16:10)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
Ps. Kate, whats Emilio up to now ?


Same as ever, playing, accompanying and teaching. He's just held an intensive course at Carmen las Cuevas over Xmas. Maybe in the new year we'll get him back into the studio, the singer Jaime El Parrón is talking about recording his next album, and am pretty sure he will get Emilio in to accompany. I saw Emilio last just before xmas at the Eshavira, having a wild time, Enrique Morente turned up and sang till the wee hours, Emilio accompanying. Now that's what Juan Carmona should do, just hang out and chill out.

Kate



Doitsujin -> RE: Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Dec. 27 2006 8:34:22)

I always thought Carmona is spanish... :.(?
About the racism in flamenco, all is already said I think. I wouldnt call good guitarrists uneducated if they are able to compose brilliant and understand the theory in detail.



Phil -> RE: Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Dec. 27 2006 9:04:56)

quote:

I always thought Carmona is spanish... :.(?


I was pretty confused at first. Then I did a search. This Juan Carmona is not to be confused with Juan Carmona Carmona AKA Juan Habichuela, brother of Pepe Habichuela, and father of Antonio Carmona, the former Ketama singer. To further confuse things, I think Juana Habichuela has a guitarrist son named Juan. The Juan Carmona in the interview was born and raised in France by Spanish immigrants parents and says that he's a cousin of the Habichuelas.

As far as his whining about foriegners playing Flamenco in Spain: he might just be bitter because he's not as successful as he thinks he should be. Antonio Moya was born and raised in France and doesn't seem to have any problem finding work in Spain.

Phil



Ricardo -> RE: Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Dec. 28 2006 0:55:21)

Yeah, I first thought that he was related too. But to be honest, I liked his music, but did not consider his playing in league with my favorites. Certainly not like the Habichuelas. Not sure what it was I did not like in his playing, but something missing. Now I know what it is![;)]

Just kidding, but seriously, maybe he thinks more highly of himself than some others do. I personally was surprised about his nomination. But these things are personal taste. As far as foreignors, I like Tino Vandersman better. But he lives and works IN Spain. Perhaps he needs to "assimilate" if he wants to work there. He already has a good "name".

Ricardo



chinito -> RE: Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Dec. 31 2006 6:25:41)

Man, the whole thing with the numerous Juan Carmonas is hard to keep track of.
Juan in Florian's interview is a brilliant guitarist to be sure, but as Ricardo mentioned he's mainly worked from France. Guitarists like Moya and Vandersman have the edge by being in Spain without the hassle of having to come from another country. There's great flamencos all over the world, but most of them aren't invited to perform in Spain. I guess Juan feels he should be asked to perform more because France is "next door" so to speak.

-Jake.



John O. -> RE: Juan Carmona's take on Racism in flamenco (Jan. 11 2007 10:53:59)

I know of one non-Spanish guitarist who has albums distributed in Spain (though there's probably more), the German Miguel Iven, yet I have still to read about him in any Spanish flamenco magazine. In "La Flamenca", a pretty critical one, they constantly praise Miguel Poveda as a singer (rightfully so) yet never forget to mention he's not from Andalucia. I have yet to see any article or critique about ANY non-Spanish flamenco musician or dancer. It's maybe just a really really big deal there.

Whenever I'm in Spain or communticate with Spanish people I get the feeling that most of us here would know more about flamenco than most Spanish people (differentiating between Spanish and Gypsy). Still programmers are maybe afraid the concert halls won't be filled if they don't put Spanish people on the stage.

I think most musicians and aficionados themselves know better. I once read an article about Manolo Sanlúcar in which he states how amazed he is at the abilities of the non-Spanish flamencos at his seminars who learn only from books and CDs. The Spanish people I've met here perform with Germans all the time. As a teenager in a Spanish mission here in Germany I remember getting advice from the older Spanish people and even performing for them. I don't think there's any racism there.



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