RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Full Version)

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Estevan -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 12 2009 11:26:55)

quote:

quote [estebanana]:

In Granada you have Bellido- hands down the best blanca I ever heard belongs to Antonio Moya and it's by old man Bellido
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Just for the record, Antonio has been playing a Manuel Bellido guitar. The picture posted by JB shows the shop of Manuel's brother, Jose.

Rob

That's right - it's pretty vague to say that someone plays "a Bellido" as there are four Bellidos who make guitars. Manuel is the oldest, Jose is his brother. Manuel and his oldest son Jesús share a workshop on the other side of the hill from José, and Manuel's youngest son Mauricio does the french polish for them. The middle son, Miguel Angel, has a workshop somewhere outside the town and has other people building with/for him. Miguel Angel also runs the guitar shop in town (Calle Navas) where they sell a range of instruments from factory models to primeras.

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Welcome back, Bash! glad you made it to Graná.
Thanks for the photos - I'll add a couple (taken last year).

On the way to the Manuel and Jesús taller:



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Estevan -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 12 2009 11:48:02)

Taller of Manuel and Jesús Bellido (the door on the right was open)



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Anders Eliasson -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 13 2009 0:39:07)

Esteban

If you continue straight ahead towards the mountains . See your first photo, and you know where to turn left, some 12 km later you end up in Quentar where I used to live and build before moving to Beas, Huelva.



Estevan -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 13 2009 9:38:41)

Yes Anders, I thought of you (and Terremoto de Quentar) when I saw the mountains, but when I was there you had already moved to Huelva. I'll visit you sometime - it may be in a few years.



orsonw -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 13 2009 11:51:17)

Thanks for the help, just came back from Spain, no guitar but I enjoyed looking.

Didn't find anything in José Louis Postigo shops.

Saw some good guitars in Bernal's workshop in Algodonales but I have two of his already.

Went to Moraito's guitar shop in Jerez. Though wasn't much there, a few cheaper factory guitars and a second hand Ramirez, Andres Dominguez and R. Brune guitar.
His son was working there and then he said I'll just get my Father and in came Moraito. Interesting to have Moraito selling me guitars. I wasn't expecting that.

Here in London I've seen a- 1997 Gravina A26, 1966 Atocha blanca and I'm going to look at a Jose Rodriquez Pena. Thankfully there are flamenco guitars for sale all over the world not just Spain.



estebanana -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 14 2009 8:15:00)

When I said Moya plays a Bellido made by the old man Bellido I implied that I was talking about Manuel 'cause he's the oldest. I know there's more than one, and in fact, a whole clan of Bellidos. I'm glad to see you guys parsed out all the Bellido family and where their respective shops are located.

The first time I was in Granada I was with my girlfriend at the time and she was not the least bit interested in guitars so I was not given the time to visit any of the shops under penalty of the scorn of a travel weary female companion. The second time in Granada I was with a girlfriend who was an architect from Stolkholm. We spent our days at the Alahambra, but I was also not allowed on that trip to dally in the guitar shops. She was angry with me already because I could not keep my eyes off of the stunning Granadinas.



Ted G -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 16 2009 13:48:17)

I didn't realize that Moraito's son was a guitar builder, or does Moraito just sell guitars that he no longer uses?

Curious about the Brune guitar being sold in his shop. I know Richard Brune built a guitar for him and delivered it to him personally when he went to Spain at the time. I believe the guitar Richard Brune built for Moraito is in this video:



Not too many Brune's around, so I'm curious if it's the same guitar.



Tom Blackshear -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 17 2009 3:47:16)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SEden

Does it have to be a spanish maker there are plenty of great makers that dont live in spain! hmm I just noticed this is an old post that has been brought back! Did you go to spain and get a bargain? did you finish your own build and did it sound great?


I build a 1955 Conde style that Nino Ricado owned and it sells for $4,500 plus shipping, about half my regular price, as I love to build this particular style with a scale modification of 655 mm and my special fine tuning techniques. I build it with capable classical style tuning machines and the guitar is totally french polished. This is not meant to capture all of the business, as I don't build fast enough for that, which means you have to wait about a year to get one.



orsonw -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 17 2009 7:39:28)

Moratito's shop in Jerez.
I was told it is a new shop. When I was there Moraitio was selling some of his old guitars and some newer factory made models. His son was looking after the shop rather than building guitars.
I can't tell if the Brune is the same as in the video but Moratio did say that it was given to him. He seemed reluctant to sell it.

I'm flying to Freiberg to vist Johannes at Mundo flamenco. I wasn't imagining Germany as the place to buy a flamenco but it seems he has one of the best selections in Europe. You players in the US seem to have the best higher end guitars, either Spanish or US built.

PS For those looking in London- the Jose Rodriguez Pena advertised here on the foro is a great guitar, unfortunatley a little too sweet for my tastes.
I also tried a beaten up 1987 Manuel Bellido blanca at the Spanish guitar centre. The salesman's style put me off; I couldn't tell if it was for sale or for how much (too much it seemed).

The one thing I have learned for sure in all of this- One cannot tell what a guitar is like without trying it for oneself. We all have different tastes, one man's great guitar may very well not suit another. It's very tempting to see a guitar online that seems it's for you and be wrong. I have learnt this the hard way. I now own a great Negra but it's not for me, I would not have bought it if I'd tried it first. I know I can sell it but it's a hassle.



Tom Blackshear -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 17 2009 8:21:08)

quote:

ORIGINAL: orsonw

Moratito's shop in Jerez.
I was told it is a new shop. When I was there Moraitio was selling some of his old guitars and some newer factory made models. His son was looking after the shop rather than building guitars.
I can't tell if the Brune is the same as in the video but Moratio did say that it was given to him. He seemed reluctant to sell it.

I'm flying to Freiberg to vist Johannes at Mundo flamenco. I wasn't imagining Germany as the place to buy a flamenco but it seems he has one of the best selections in Europe. You players in the US seem to have the best higher end guitars, either Spanish or US built.

PS For those looking in London- the Jose Rodriguez Pena advertised here on the foro is a great guitar, unfortunatley a little too sweet for my tastes.
I also tried a beaten up 1987 Manuel Bellido blanca at the Spanish guitar centre. The salesman's style put me off; I couldn't tell if it was for sale or for how much (too much it seemed).

The one thing I have learned for sure in all of this- One cannot tell what a guitar is like without trying it for oneself. We all have different tastes, one man's great guitar may very well not suit another. It's very tempting to see a guitar online that seems it's for you and be wrong. I have learnt this the hard way. I now own a great Negra but it's not for me, I would not have bought it if I'd tried it first. I know I can sell it but it's a hassle.
\

The Brune guitar is most probably the one he gave to Moraito when he was in Spain some years ago. But one thing I have found that works for some shops is to carry a set amount of cash and offer it to them; that is, if you find the guitar you want. But there is no way to guarantee a good guitar by searching all over Europe unless you just happen to stumble on one that is available, and then you have to pay the price because most shops know what they have and are satisfied to wait for their asking price. You will do better at a builder's shop than at a retail outlet, because the builder is always ready to deal if he has a back log.

But I think what you are looking for is going to be next to impossible to find because most players have been there ahead of you. So, if you can find a builder who has a short wait list, and he is known as a great builder, then put in your order and hope for the best. There is a guitar maker in Mexico that is now making a Reyes style that is great, according to the distributor in Texas, and it is not that expensive, probably much less that you would spend on a Spanish instrument. And this distributor ships all over the world.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 17 2009 8:23:11)

It surprices me you didn´t see anything at Postigos shop.

Was he there? Did you ask to see some of his good guitars. He has a very big and well known collection, which he sells if the price is right and he´s in the mood.

If you come to Andalucia again, you are welcome to stop by. I am only 80km from Sevilla.



orsonw -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 17 2009 12:28:00)

I went to both Postigo shop addresses in Seville that were posted earlier in this thread.
In one shop I was served by a young man in the other a middle aged woman. In the shops the best guitar was a new 2700 euro "postigo' that looked like a sanchis, I asked if they had any better, more expensive guitars they both said no. So unfortunatley I didn't get to see the collection which you and others have told me about.

I was mainly in Andalusia for horse riding which is another passion of mine. Of course on the way I also made it to a pena and checked out guitars.

In any case I'm having great fun searching for a guitar. I already have two good guitars that I like so it's not a desperate search. It's a good education about what different guitars are like and what I prefer in a guitar. I know no guitar is perfect and they all have strengths and weakness but I also know and have felt that a few have real soul and suit my hands and others do not.

I agree it would be good to get a guitar built for me. I have considered Anders, Glenn Canin and Salvador Castillo on recommendation but I have never actually seen or played any of their guitars so I find it hard order.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 18 2009 1:25:31)

Horse riding should be very good in Huelva. We have some of nicest landscapes of all Andalucia. You have to know where to go.
There are aranged horseriding on the beach, which is one of the prettyest in Spain and maybe the biggest, in the Doñana national park and also in the national park "sierra de Huelva" There are from 1 to 7 days excursions.

I know its off topic, but, well, these days you have to do what you can in order to atract costumers.[:D]



Ted G -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 18 2009 10:03:42)

For dealers, both Flamenco Mundo and Guitarreria are both excellent places to pick up nice guitars in Europe, outside Spain. I have dealt with both and have had great experiences. And I'm located in the US.



aarongreen -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 18 2009 14:00:50)

I haven't done any business with Mundo Flamenco but I have hung out with Johannes and he is a great guy and a real good player as well. He seems to have real good taste in guitars so I wouldn't hesitate to recommend him, if you want to buy from a dealer. I spent some time with him and Anders last time I was in Spain and had a terrific time as well as getting to see the guitar Anders made for him, which was lovely. Thanks for those pics of Cuesta Gomerez (did I spell that right?) makes me think of the times I spent in Granada, which is my alltime favorite place in Spain.

Aaron



danilo -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 20 2009 7:34:06)

This summer I was the first time visiting Granada.I had my room in just that Cuesta (€25.- per night ). that time Bellidos was closed the whole week, but I was visiting Diaz, who was very friendly and had very cool guitars.I loved his designs and I think I saw a Photo of Piementito in his shop.
In Casa Ferrer they`ve been a bit uninteressted, so I didn´t try anything.
The other Luthier there is German perez Barranco,where his son was in the shop,He was very friendly and always in the mood for a chat, but when I wanted to try a guitar (a primera) he gave me a cheap one with an action higher than any china guitar from the supermarket.I was like c`mon man thats ridiculous for a Flamenca and he was telling me it was because its a guitarra por juergas and that the gitanos love thoose guitars because it doesn`t matter when thy are drunk and something breaks!!(learned somthing new I guess)
The next one was Daniel Gilles de valles..thats the biggest shop so far I´ve seen in Granada...never heard the Name before, but in two of my guiding books where photos of him.
I also tried to find Marin Montero and Plazuelo but whenever i was there they were closed.
In Malaga I was In malaga musical and I saw a guitar, asked if could try and got the answer.If you buy you can try!Then I asked for the adress of Pedro Maldonado,and she was asking why I want to see him......such a helpfull Lady!!
The Maldonados were the nicest Luthiers I met very helpfull and friendly.I met all three and they showed me differnces in their style, told me a lot off old stories.So I decided to get one of Pedro junior in Torremolinos.The basic Maldonado is for 1500.- and the sound is like a primera, thats a good buy I really can recommend(I think I tried about 6 of them)



orsonw -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 20 2009 11:43:42)

Here's the link to Postigo's website.

He's got an impressive list of guitars, I was so close but didn't get to see it. A pity I hadn't found this before and contacted him before going.


http://www.guitarraspostigo.com/



rogeliocan -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 24 2009 5:13:37)

I looked into doing the same thing about 3 months ago because I am going to Analucia next spring. So I started looking for Spanish forums to talk with people from there. If you understand spanish you can check out the conversations I had as well as others had before me, the site is Artelinkado.com.
My conclusion from all comments I got from other tocadores are:
1. Hand made guitars are expensive, the euro is so high.
2. You will have to pay duty unless you lie. Don't get caught.
3. For hand made, you need to pay $$$$$$ for big names so I wanted to go to less known guitar makers and try their guitars, a lot of time and work and travelling.
4. The guitar makers there, just like here, don't have a guitar ready for you, if they have available guitars, you should wonder why, so you have to order.
5. You will have to put the guitar on the plane, can be a rough ride.
6. The guitar once you get home, may not sound as good... una guitarra de Granada, suena en Granada.

Just my thoughts.

Finally I decided to look for luthiers here and visited them to try their sample guitars. I found one I really liked and ordered one. Hand made by one luthier who I trust his guitars will go up in cost and value within a few years. I'll have it in a year.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 24 2009 9:07:07)

Some of the things you say are correct but here a few coments:

2. You will have to pay duty unless you lie. Don't get caught.

If you are from outside Europe, you have to lie or pay. If from another EU country, you dont pay taxes duty etc.

4. The guitar makers there, just like here, don't have a guitar ready for you, if they have available guitars, you should wonder why, so you have to order.

I have a guitar at home and for sale and I consider it to be one of my best guitars so far. Sometimes you build more than you sell, especially these days with economy the way it is.

6. The guitar once you get home, may not sound as good... una guitarra de Granada, suena en Granada.

Well, I dont agree, a good guitar sounds good everywhere. But its always difficult to buy an instrument and bring it home.



estebanana -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 24 2009 11:30:16)

quote:

6. The guitar once you get home, may not sound as good... una guitarra de Granada, suena en Granada.


They say the same thing about fino and manzanilla. It does not travel well. If you take it over mountains or roads from where it was made it ruins it.

May well be true for fino, but the guitar can be drunk anywhere.



danilo -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 24 2009 14:26:11)

Moraitos shop:

from last sundays news



estebanana -> RE: Buying a guitar in Spain (Nov. 24 2009 16:35:40)

Jeeeez Moraito sings great!



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