Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Full Version)

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GailP -> Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 13 2006 23:23:31)

[:-]I was just curious - who of you out there in "Flamenco-land" plays a Flamenco guitar with pegs - and prefers pegs to machine tuners? Are pegs such a hassle nowadays that most of you out there are playing flamenco guitars with machine tuners?



duende -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 14 2006 5:17:45)

i played an alhambra withg pegs before my "Anders". i don´t miss them. only the look of them



hassurbanipal -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 14 2006 7:05:10)

I still play a conde hermanos from 1969 with wooden pegs and find it very nice but the problem is that when the strings are getting older it becomes even more difficult to get a fine tuning with pegs. so it's kind of a hassle on stage.....



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 14 2006 8:12:56)

At this moment I dont have a peghead, but one day I will make another one for myself.

I like the sound of Blanca pegheads. They are so nervous. The sound kind of jumps out of them.
I´ve made 5 pegheads so far and all of them have been with these characteristics. There has been a lot of discussion on why they are different from machine heads. Some say weight, but I doubt that very much. The difference in weight in a peghead headstoch and a machine head headstock is very small if at all present.
My theory is that the strings are much more in contact with the head/neck, making a very direct conection, whereas the machineheads give you a kind of "dead" piece of plastic and metal between string and headstock.

I find pegheads nice when you are in controled environments, but I would never take one to a juerga or dance lesson. There I would prefer machine heads. Its just easyer to tune with them.



gerundino63 -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 14 2006 10:24:13)

Hi GailP

I play also a Jose Lopez Bellido pegghead, very nice, but as Anders say, it is not nice for performing, I play weekly solo in a Spanish restaurant, and with the noise and all, it is difficult to get in tune. ( So there I use a machine head)
I allways thought that peggs weight about 200 gram less than machine head, and that at the end of the guitar, counts in my opinion.

Also, the good guitarbuilders nowadays use a spruce wall in the pegg hole, that is much better and does not wear out than the older guitars without that wall.

All the best, Peter



legrec -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 14 2006 10:49:10)

Anders,

Ok perhaps with what I'm going to say I'll definitly been taken for a dumb man on this foro, but I dare : Do you know if someone ever tried to make "wooden machine heads" ? I mean with a carved wooden plate, and with the maximum use of woods (wood rollers?!?), except for mechanical parts ?
I imagine it could perhaps even be directly carved from the neck-head piece of wood (the plates) ?
If it's not an impossible thing, perhaps it would help for the weight and "vibration problem" ?

The "dumb french man"



tk -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 14 2006 15:01:00)

GailP

I have guitars with peg heads. One being a Devoe Negra. It depends on who makes the pegs. There are luthiers who know how to make good pegs and some who don't. Lester Devoe is very well known (even among other reputable luthiers) for his excellent pegs. I believe, Eric SAhlin also makes flamenco guitars with pegs that are Vizcarra friction pegs and work like machines but with the looks of pegs.

At one point, a friend of mine took his Devoe blanca with pegs to Manuel Reyes shop. Apparaently, Reyes looked at the guitar and said "it is a nice guitar, but what is special about this guitar is the pegs".

I think peg guitars tend to have dry sound compared to machine head guitars. So it comes down to personal preference. As to the funcionality, I don't think you would have a problem with pegs made by Lester Devoe.

TK



tk -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 14 2006 15:03:22)

Bonjour legrec,

I don't think what you said is dumb. In fact I posted my reponse before reading yours. Eric Sahlion makes guitars with peg looks but Viscara friction.

http://www.guitarsalon.com/store.php?item_number=GUFLSAH-03165&template_id=gsi_site_a.tpl&render_it=SPEC&searched=YES&spot=img_1&product_cat=FL&search_string=&render_type=PRODUCT_CAT&order_by=field_1,%20web_price



steve -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 14 2006 15:06:27)

gerundino63,

When you say "wall", you mean an insert or bushing that the peg turns in? And are you sure its spruce and not maple?

thanks

steve



legrec -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 14 2006 15:16:44)

Thanks TK ! This Salin looks wonderful.

I think that Anders have already made a guitar with these "mechanical pegs" (perhaps not by the same maker but from pegheds.com ?).

I also think my question was really dumb, because I was really thinking about wooden machine heads, with the look and shape of the machine heads !
So, it's not useful because it seems that some makers have already invented the good-looking (and sounding?) pegs with the friendly-to-the-user touch of the machines. For sure, if they are durable, that's the way to go, and even for the tablaos (or, as it had been said : perfectly fitted pegs by a good maker).



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 14 2006 15:29:46)

I havent seen any (normal) machineheads made out of wood so far, I only know some pegs with build in machines. (I dont like them myself)

I dont think there will be 200grams in difference between a peghead and a machine head if you use light machine heads. The cut out you do for the machines does weigh something and so does the pegs, so maybe a slightly difference

DeVoe makes exelent pegs. I totally agree.

You can make bushes out of hardwoods, I have done that and will do so if the client wants it. I dont think its so important though. What matters is to keep the pegs well "lubricated". I´ve seen old and very used pegheads where the pegs ran directly in the cedar, and they werent worn out.

The picture is of a peghead with bushes, before they get covered by the headplate.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



legrec -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 14 2006 15:47:37)

Anders, thanks for the picture and comments.

Would you like to elaborate a little on why you don't like "mechanical pegs" ?
I was really considering this option for a new guitar
-and it could also be an useful answer for GailP-



flamencoguru -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 14 2006 16:06:38)

I just bought a guitar with pegs. I was skeptical but I honestly tell you that there is no difference in tuning these or tuning my sloane tuners. They are incredible!! They fit like a glove and as smooth as silk.

I've tried other guitars with pegs and they worked terribly!! So it truely comes down to the luthier knowing how to fit the pegs.

Un saludo, Errol



gerundino63 -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 14 2006 16:27:18)

Hi Steve,

It is a insert where the pegg runs into.


yes, think of it twice it is maple, Sorry for misinforming, and thanks for showing me![:D]

Peter



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 15 2006 7:52:59)

Its a personal opinion this with the geared pegs and I know that there are others liking them.
I find them to be big and also a bit heavy, the mecanism is so-so, the tuning feels rubery and I dont know how long they will last, and last, I´m a purist, so if I want pegs, I want wooden pegs and thats it, if I want machines, I want machines.

Un saludo



legrec -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 15 2006 9:39:52)

Thank you very much Mr Eliasson-



mkhn -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 15 2006 14:24:57)

Hi Anders,

Perhaps, when given the chance, you could weigh a peg head and machine head to really measure the difference and settle the debate on way or the other :)

Thanks,

Mike



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 15 2006 15:44:08)

I´ve just shipped a peghead, so until I build another, it wont be possible. The interesting thing would be to weigh the neck with pegs, and compare it to a neck with machine heads, but I can tell you it wont be much of a difference



tmock -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 15 2006 16:13:38)

Errol,

I'm assuming your new peghead guitar is a Juan Miguel Gonzalez?

Travis.



Reece -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 15 2006 18:14:14)

The peghead I've just received from Anders feels a whole lot lighter in the neck than my other guitar that has machines.

Then again, the whole guitar is much lighter, so this could be perceived as opposed to real.

*runs off to play guitar*



Patrick -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 15 2006 18:34:03)

quote:

I'm assuming your new peghead guitar is a Juan Miguel Gonzalez?


No it's a Tezanos Perez negra



TANúñez -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 15 2006 19:35:44)

This difference in weight is soooo minor I doubt you'll really notice. The most noticable difference in weight will be on your left hand while your holding the neck. This too is very minor.



Doitsujin -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 15 2006 22:31:23)

I think the head of the guitar looks emplty and naked with pegheads. Mechanics look much better IMO. By the way, its not so confortable to use pegheads. Its allways easyer and of course faster to tune with mechanics. And for me the handling of my guitar is important. And not only in playing, also in tuning.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Pegs in Flamenco-land? (Dec. 16 2006 8:26:48)

quote:

The peghead I've just received from Anders feels a whole lot lighter in the neck than my other guitar that has machines.

Then again, the whole guitar is much lighter, so this could be perceived as opposed to real.


Reece,

I made a Machine head blanca for Jon at the same time as yours and they were shipped the same day. I didn´t weigh them, but I couldnt feel any difference in weight. They are both very light guitars.



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