questions on lowering action at bridge

questions on lowering action at bridge (Full Version)

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mrMagenta -> questions on lowering action at bridge (Dec. 9 2006 4:06:36)
Hello, I've been lurking a bit in here and I'm really impressed by the guitars, workmanship, knowledge and general attitude on this forum. Anyhow, I've made a bone saddle for the bridge of my guitar, which is a flamenco guitar in the lower price-end (Quiles). I'm concerned about the action. While practising the martillo golpe, the low E keeps (uncomfortably) hitting the top end of my fingernail (might be bad technique for the major part though). I measured the action. It was 13mm at the rosetto (bridge side of the soundhole). I've lowered it to 11mm, but to lower it further would cause strings to touch the wood of the bridge (behind the saddle). What effect would this have? Is it crucial that the strings run freely from the saddle bone to the insertion holes? I could sand the bone down at least another 3mm if it weren't for the strings coming in contact with the wood behind the slot. Another question: will lowering the action from 13 to 9 or 8mm change the intonation noticably? in that case, would it be easy to compensate in some way? Short presentation: I'm quite new to playing flamenco guitar. I'm taking lessons and working on getting a feel for the common palos and techniques. My aim is to get into the art of playing for dance and cante, as I really love the way flamenco works with those three elements. I live in Stockholm, Sweden. My real name is Zoran Dokic (not to be confused with Zoran Dukic :-))

Anders Eliasson -> RE: questions on lowering action at bridge (Dec. 11 2006 7:49:44)
You can shave of some of the wood at the bridge, but be aware of the break angle at the bridge (The angle of the string between the bone and the holes) You dont want it to be below 20 degrees.

JBASHORUN -> RE: questions on lowering action at bridge (Dec. 11 2006 11:34:16)
Zoran, It sounds as though your guitar has a standard classical bridge, as opposed to a lower Flamenco one. The strings should NOT touch the wood of the bridge. If you want to lower them by that much you will have to do what Anders says and trim some of the wood off of the front of the bridge. It isn't a difficult job- you could use a cabinet scraper or a plane to do it. Or alternatively. take it to a luthier, and he can do it for you. If you do it yourself, be aware that lowering the front of the bridge will also mean that your saddle slot is shallower. And also take care with the break angle like Anders said. Jb

DavidT -> RE: questions on lowering action at bridge (Dec. 11 2006 13:57:40)
Zoran, I've done this work with my guitar. No problem... email me I'll show you details how-to instruction with pictures. Dave

JBASHORUN -> RE: questions on lowering action at bridge (Dec. 11 2006 18:26:23)
quote: I've done this work with my guitar. No problem... email me I'll show you details how-to instruction with pictures. Would this be the "improvised" 12-hole tie-block? Say, hows about posting a photo of that one... Jb

DavidT -> RE: questions on lowering action at bridge (Dec. 11 2006 18:56:33)
JB, You're probably ahead of me on this subject. I current use a alternate tieing withou looping. They look ugly though. But it's ok for keeping sufficient break angles. I'll try the 12-hole tie-block next. I need to to find a right tool..., a drill bit with a foot of shank length. Dave

JBASHORUN -> RE: questions on lowering action at bridge (Dec. 11 2006 19:51:38)
quote: I'll try the 12-hole tie-block next. I need to to find a right tool..., a drill bit with a foot of shank length. LOL, good luck with finding a 2mm dia. drill bit with a 12" shank! You'll need it! Just an idea, but you might wanna try one of those flexible drill shaft attachments like so: http://www.toolspot.co.uk/product/taylor-flexible-drill-shaft I think this one's got a 1/4" chuck, but if you look hard enough you might be able to find one with an even smaller chuck. It might help you to get the angle for the second set of holes. I don't suppose it matters too much if the secondary holes are at a slight angle. Jb PS: if you do make it a 12 hole block, you might wanna consider the positioning of the secondary holes in relation to the primary ones... by placing the secondary holes slightly above (diagonally) the primary ones you can allow for easy "tucking in" of the string end. I think the Schramm website explains it better than I can: http://www.schrammguitars.com/12hole.html

mrMagenta -> RE: questions on lowering action at bridge (Dec. 11 2006 22:40:34)
Thanks Anders, Jb and Dave I'll do it at the next string change. Shaving off two mm will likely be all it takes. The break angle is 25-30 degrees now. I guess there is some room before the 20-limit. Is seems though that whoever drilled the holes wasn't very exact, between the strings the angles vary up to 5 deg. The hill where the bone is inset is a bit step-shaped behind the bone, that's what makes strings come in contact, so I'll just round it off a little. I haven't thought about the bridges being different on flamenco and classical guitars. I don't know what to look for. The bone and slot hole goes straight up from the soundboard, like on my classical, but the shape surrounding it is more slanted. The fourth picture of JB's link is close to what mine looks like. Mine is also a 12-hole. Only in that picture there is more wood on the front of the slot-hill, while mine has more at the back. ("front" as in soundhole side)

DavidT -> RE: questions on lowering action at bridge (Dec. 11 2006 23:03:56)
Zoran, JB knows what he's talking about and very knowlegeable about it. Thanks JB for the info. I wanted to do 12-whole option long time ago but kind of chicken-out... Dave

Anders Eliasson -> RE: questions on lowering action at bridge (Dec. 12 2006 7:20:57)
quote: I haven't thought about the bridges being different on flamenco and classical guitars. I don't know what to look for. Hejsan MrMagenta A flamenco bridge looks the same, its just smaller. My bridges are 6 - 7mm high. This in order to make the stringheight correct, but also in order to have less mass, meaning faster attack. The fact that you have a 12 hole tie black makes everything easyer, because it makes break angle a lot steeper.

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