Moraito (Full Version)

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Jim Opfer -> Moraito (Nov. 19 2006 20:47:48)

Just a link to youtube but one of the best I've 'seen' him play.



Ricardo -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 20 2006 3:19:06)

Thanks so much Jim. I love that groove. Too bad the solea faded out.

So folks wondering where the BEAT is in bulerias, look at his foot and the girls foot most of the time. Now, would you guys say he plays on top of or behind the beat to get the jerez feel?[:D]

Ricardo



MarkMc -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 20 2006 10:25:18)

Very helpfull video, thanks for sharing.

To me it sounds like he's playing behind the beat? [8|]



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 20 2006 10:39:13)

Great video.
I would like to sit there myself with all this Fino or Manzanilla, playing por bulerias with a beautifull girl at my side doing kling kling with the glass and some hick ups with her shoulder while doing Um baff baff with her foot.
There are various rythmic variations in the feet of both a lot of two tapping as well.
I would say that Moraito sits well back in his seat in this buleria (In everything he plays)
And I like the dialogue: ¿Que tal? Mu bien mu bien[8D]

The Solea is awesome...



Jon Boyes -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 20 2006 11:18:48)

Thanks Jim, that rocks!

I love the way the people in the background are oblivious to all, like guitar geniuses turn up and play in their wine cellar every day [:D]

Notice how he plays so hard his headstock starts to smoulder..



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 20 2006 15:55:21)

That is just great! I much prefer it to his album that I have, which I don't really like.

By the way, is THIS from the Encuentro video? I do like this "piece", too.

:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjHygFe3r0o&mode=related&search=



Jim Opfer -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 22 2006 8:32:42)

quote:

is THIS from the Encuentro video?


It's from a BBC documentary broadcast about 10 years ago.



Jon Boyes -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 22 2006 8:38:06)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Opfer

quote:

is THIS from the Encuentro video?


It's from a BBC documentary broadcast about 10 years ago.


Jim - Mike is talking about the link HE posted (which is from the Encuentro video).

Cheers



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 22 2006 16:08:48)

You know, it makes me wonder why I disliked his album so much. I am starting to think it is because of the reverb. Silly, huh?



TGerman -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 22 2006 17:03:47)

I don´t know Mike, I really love both of his albums. He has a very distinctive groove, there is no mistaking who is playing the guitar, and that, to me, is worth more than some guy blasting away the rasgueados and picados like a machine with no feeling. He may not be a Paco or Gerardo but no one says we only have to like the virtuosos.

Todd



Georg -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 22 2006 18:27:34)

Where does the smoke during the solea come from? Does he have a cigarette sticked in the headstock?

I especially liked the falsetta at about 03:00



tmock -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 22 2006 18:27:52)

Is it just me or does Moraito have serious claws? It seems like he keeps his nails way longer than most other modern players.

Travis.



Phil -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 22 2006 18:47:26)

quote:

Is it just me or does Moraito have serious claws?


The only other guitarist that I've personally seen with nails as long as Moraito's was Parrilla de Jerez. I saw an old video of Manuel Morao (Moraito's uncle) the other day and his nails didn't appear to be all that long. This brings up a question that I've had for a long time: does anybody know Moraito's relationship with Parrilla? I've heard Moraito play segments of Parrilla's falsetas several times and on the Zambo CD he plays a Parrilla Seguiriya falseta note for note (starting about 2:24). Anybody know the influence of Parrilla on Moraito?

Phil



Ricardo -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 22 2006 20:26:45)

quote:

I've heard Moraito play segments of Parrilla's falsetas several times and on the Zambo CD he plays a Parrilla Seguiriya falseta note for note (starting about 2:24). Anybody know the influence of Parrilla on Moraito?



Nuñez taught us that falseta and said it is from Javier Molina, the father of the jerez school of guitar. Parrilla and Morao are from that school, probably all like "brothers" to each other when it comes to flamenco.

Incidently, I have heard Diego del Gastor play that falseta too, in Rito y Geografia. That is some old ****, for sure. Perhaps older than Molina.

Ricardo



Jim Opfer -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 23 2006 12:00:59)

quote:

Where does the smoke during the solea come from? Does he have a cigarette sticked in the headstock?


Yea! on the BBC documentary (which has different footage) he's puffing away and takes his cigarette and jams it under his 6th string at the headstock. Galas!



sonikete -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 23 2006 22:32:55)

quote:

So folks wondering where the BEAT is in bulerias, look at his foot and the girls foot most of the time. Now, would you guys say he plays on top of or behind the beat to get the jerez feel?


Ha ha ha, you cant let that go can you?



Phil -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 24 2006 22:44:22)

quote:

Nuñez taught us that falseta and said it is from Javier Molina, the father of the jerez school of guitar. Parrilla and Morao are from that school, probably all like "brothers" to each other when it comes to flamenco.


Ricardo,
I guess I assumed it was Parrilla's because I heard him play it first on earlier recording. And you know what they say about assuming. [;)] A while back I posted Manuel Morao playing what most people would consider a classic Diego del Gastor bulerias falseta (I don't know if it was this forum or another). The recording was made in the '50s. So the question is did Morao get it from Gastor or vice versa or did they both get it from a 3rd source? At the end of the day it really doesn't make any difference, but I find it somewhat interesting.

The Morao brothers learned directly from Molina. Parrilla from Rafael del Aguila who had been a student of Molina. Gerardo Nuñez also took lessons from Rafael, but he must have been very young, as Rafael died in 1976 or 77. Rafael del Aguila was somewhat 'eccentric'. I had the opportunity to meet him and take some lessons from him in 1975. The next time you go to Nuñez's seminar, ask him to tell you about Rafael. Other students of Rafael's were Paco Cepero, the Jero brothers, Fernando Moreno, and probably just about every Jerez guitarist over 50.

Phil



Exitao -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 24 2006 23:49:24)

quote:

So folks wondering where the BEAT is in bulerias, look at his foot and the girls foot most of the time. Now, would you guys say he plays on top of or behind the beat to get the jerez feel?


I still don't understand enough of this to try to answer. But I do have a question. Their feet don't keep time the same way.

His foot makes me think of a metronome, but hers is odd. What am I looking at?



Jim Opfer -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 28 2006 12:22:47)

quote:

What am I looking at?


It's hard to say as she keeps changing. Sometimes in 3's with one beat silent and sometimes in 2's. She seems also to be responding to his playing and almost like 'contra' she's in between the beat.

Other thing might be that she knows nothing about flamenco and is just there to brighten up the film[:D] I guess stranger things have happened, like John Wayne being the centurian in that film about Jeasus...mmm but then again[:-]



Exitao -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 28 2006 17:35:01)

Contratiempo was the only guess I had, but I'm not a good guesser, so I had to ask.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Nov. 28 2006 18:11:01)

[Deleted by Admins]



Exitao -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 28 2006 18:26:24)

quote:

problem with these videos is sometimes they lag just a split second behind.
Looks like she's tapping the rhythm fine to me. It's kinda like knowing the rules and then being able to break the rules sort of. She knows compas and brings out in combos of the many different ways it can be done.


The issue of a sound not synching with image wasn't remotely connected to my question.

I was watching his foot, which was metronome-like in its motion. Then I was trying to keep his foot in the centre of my field of vision and watch her foot in my peripheral feild of vision.
It was clear she was in rythm, but she was marking time differently and I was hoping somebody could describe what she was doing in relation to him - this way I could better understand compas.. visually(?).

I hope that doesn't come out cranky, I'm just clarifying what I should have asked properly when I asked "what am I looking at?"
[8|]


It occurs to me that wine cellars might have great accustics - so it might be that wine stewards and owners are constantly having to toss out some guitar player or other... "Ay, por Dios! Estos guitarristas son peor que los bichos!"
[:@]



Mark2 -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 28 2006 18:35:46)

Wine cellars do have great acoustics-being in Northern Califonia, I've played in many of them. Too bad I didn't manage to sound like Moriato or have that girl doing palmas for me!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Exitao



It occurs to me that wine cellars might have great accustics - so it might be that wine stewards and owners are constantly having to toss out some guitar player or other... "Ay, por Dios! Estos guitarristas son peor que los bichos!"
[:@]



Guest -> [Deleted] (Nov. 28 2006 18:43:53)

[Deleted by Admins]



Guest -> [Deleted] (Nov. 28 2006 18:50:30)

[Deleted by Admins]



Ricardo -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 28 2006 20:03:13)

quote:

1-2 4-5 7-8 10-11 foottap then goes into that thing that ToddK suggested 1-3-5-7-9-11.
He then feels the compas and taps 12-1 3-4 Confusing.


????? Looked clear to me the first time I watched, nothing like what you just wrote.

quote:

By the way-the quote you got from Ricard was his facetiousness. Kind of funny.


I respect others view points, and try to see it from "their" perspective when I can. The real purpose of my question was to see how everyone might have a different answer. And Yeah I think that is funny for some reason. The microtiming thing was put up by Henrick and Sonikete by the way. Everyone sees it differently. Everyone understands things differently. So how to get a point across, how can we translate what we really mean with words to each other? Your numbering of foottap beats above is a perfect example.

To me seeing a video really helps. It is clear to me watching him, how he feels the time. But to many, they are more confused by seeing this. I am amusing myself, but trying to understand better ways to communicate at the same time.

Ricardo



Ron.M -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 28 2006 20:44:37)

I don't know how much anybody can really learn from the way a guitarist taps his foot when playing.
Somebody may accent certain beats, keep a steady rhythm, stop tapping for a bit etc...
The PdL classic where he taps 1,2...1,2... is pretty special and I think he wanted that to be part of the recording.
When I saw the "Cositas Buenas" tour in Edinburgh a while back, I took an interested look at how Paco and Niño Josele tapped during a Bulerias and it was totally random...no steady foot rhythm at all.
But the musical output was entirely rhythmic.

Puts me in mind of a thing I read from an old Pohren book (not porn book..[:D])
Some old guy said "Watch out for the guitarists who constantly tap their foot...these are the ones who usually can't keep compás"..[:D]

cheers

Ron



Exitao -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 28 2006 20:51:53)

quote:

Ricardo wrote:
????? Looked clear to me the first time I watched, nothing like what you just wrote.


Um... so can you explain her count and his? [8|]



Ricardo -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 28 2006 21:53:37)

quote:

Um... so can you explain her count and his?


Yep, and I have dozens of times on the forum here. What I might write won't make it any more clear now than it did before. If you already have your idea about the "count" and what is going on, it is hard to "get through" the preconceived notions. The words "twos" or "threes" can mean a lot of different things to different people. Know what I mean?

Paco and group, always the foot is going. Same with almost all the top flamenco players. The feel of certain falsetas can be one way or another, it is not random tapping. It is not wrong for someone to feel a falseta or rhythm differently than someone else in the group (for bulerias). But the downbeat (or head) is the same for everyone. There are only a few flamenco guitarists that have good rhythm that don't tap their foot at all, or rarely, or in a strange fashion. Two I can say off hand are M. Sanlucar and V. Amigo. Learning how to tap the foot steady and consistant, can really help the flamenco student learn phrasing.

Ricardo



Exitao -> RE: Moraito (Nov. 28 2006 23:54:53)

quote:

The words "twos" or "threes" can mean a lot of different things to different people. Know what I mean?


No. I don't. That's my problem. (Among others.)[:o][&o]

Maybe I think and study too much and need to spend more time doing...



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