Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (Full Version)

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Miguel de Maria -> Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (Nov. 17 2006 18:36:29)

I have noticed that it seems a little hard to find guitars that are loud, especially on the treble side. You can get some cedar-tops that can boom the basses a bit, but guitars that can really project their trebles seem somewhat elusive. And in gigging out with other musicians, it's very important. I am wondering if this is because there is an inverse relationship with sturdiness?



Jim Opfer -> RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (Nov. 17 2006 20:41:10)

Hi MdM

I don't know about the physics but I have a blanca by V Perez Valbuena 1991 that's very loud yet it still has a dry crisp flamenco voice.
I saw it on GSI advertised as a 'Monster' and decided to go for it.
I hadn't heard of this maker before then but I have to say that it's a very good instrument.

Jim.



TANúñez -> RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (Nov. 17 2006 22:37:56)

I also have a blanca that is very loud and the trebles are dominant. Must of been something I overlooked in it's construction. I want a more balanced guitar so I went back and changed some things but it is possible to have a loud treble guitar.



Ramón -> RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (Nov. 18 2006 0:37:31)

Luthier Robert Hein had a some trebles that didn't quite keep up with the bases, so he's 'tightened up' the treble side by stiffening the treble braces. Brought things up near dead-even. Very nice.

I got lucky on mine. Seems pretty balanced AND loud (other's comments concur), but Reyes is well known for that, and I just followed Tom Blackshear's plans as close as I could, but the fan bracing pattern is a bit more complex than other plans I've studied... MY sides were down to a hair under 2mm thick (I went a bit too far!), and the top was probably rather close to the 2mm pattern.

Tom? Have you finished a Reyes yet??? Feedback against others, as you get to see and play many flamingo guitars..[X(]

My 2 cents..[8D]



Ricardo -> RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (Nov. 18 2006 7:30:15)

I think that the mid tones of a guitar are very important and very overlooked. It is always treble vs bass I hear about. If you have a bass feed back on a mic or sound system, you can increase the mids to get rid of it, without thinning out your overall sound.

So I would think the same logic would apply to a guitar top. If you get a good mid sound, you can give body and presence to the trebles, without making the guitar rumble, or lose bass. That presence CAN possibley translate into projection and perceived volume. Sorry I don't know how to relate that to the top thickness. But if you want stronger trebles in gigs, try putting the mids up a hair. The actual treble frequencies will brighten up the overall sound. So many guys I have seen want to cut mids from their live sound.

Problem with flamenco guitars is the need for low bridge, which by nature, means less volume for the sake of rapid playing response. So projection vs actual volume is important I think.

Ricardo



DoctorX2k2 -> RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (Nov. 18 2006 13:24:18)

Ramon, I'm not sure that sanding your sides below 2mm is critical. Torres built some great guitars with 1mm sides. Probably more fragile though.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (Nov. 18 2006 16:12:26)

quote:

I think that the mid tones of a guitar are very important and very overlooked


Yes, yes, yes and one more time yes[:D]

And no... They are not overlooked, at least not by me. [;)]
The dynamic range is the midrange, the growl, the bark the whatever you call it, the percussiveness playing rasgueados etc.

Its of course important that a guitar is loud when you play with other persons, but projection and clartity is what counts the most. There´s nothing worse than a guitar with lots of bottom loudness and sustain. Loudness is good, but percussiveness and clarity is very important, if not, it gets muddy.

Another thing is that a lot of players focus a lot on the 1st, 2nd and 6th string and not so much on the rest. In playing rasgueados, especially por medio, but also in general, its the 3rd and 4th string that really kicks you away. Flimsy 3rd and 4th string is the worst. And in order to have strong, a good strong midrange is essential.

To this we add the capacity to distort slightly, but thats another story and maybe another thread[:D]



sonikete -> RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (Nov. 18 2006 16:29:37)

quote:

Its of course important that a guitar is loud when you play with other persons, but projection and clartity is what counts the most. There´s nothing worse than a guitar with lots of bottom loudness and sustain. Loudness is good, but percussiveness and clarity is very important, if not, it gets muddy.


You have no idea how good it feels hearing that! Man, i have got to try one of your guitars out, are you ever back in DK?



duende -> RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (Nov. 18 2006 16:42:40)

I think Anders sent one of his guitars to DK when he sent mine to sweden.
Maybe it was to a foro member.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Loud guitar = flimsy guitar? (Nov. 19 2006 17:39:31)

Sonikete,

Where do you live. I have a Negra in Aarhus and a Blanca in Jönkjöping and I´m sure you can try them both if you are near.



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