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Guest -> [Deleted] (Oct. 29 2006 22:03:39)
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sonikete -> RE: HOW MUCH DO YOU LIVE FLAMENCO A DAY (Oct. 29 2006 22:42:00)
Im not really very active professionally now because all dancers i work with seem to get pregnant (not my fault!) and i have my son every second week, so to compensate im a complete nerd from i wake up until i go to bed. Periods when i am working with it i actually spend less time composing, practicing and studying than i am at the moment. quote: I think it is good to learn falsetas note for note, play em 100 times then start doing your own thing with them. That way you really absorb the masters ideas. I think sabicas learned from records slowing them down to get it right, so its an old tradition .. About the tarantos remate or caña and polo, i dont think a lot to worry about, if you´re working with a dancer or singer from spain you have to do their way anyway, and it wont be a good idea to start a fight over it no matter which version you think is right.

Guest -> [Deleted] (Oct. 29 2006 22:50:51)
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Ricardo -> RE: HOW MUCH DO YOU LIVE FLAMENCO A DAY (Oct. 30 2006 2:30:28)
I am on here because I can't really play my guitar at this moment, or have a juerga, or work. Everyone is going to bed, I am not tired so here I am. All day was with family, no flamenco stuff until now, and this is just talking about it. So I don't think to know where a cante comes from helps you accompany it, sing, or dance it. The reverse could be true, one could execute it quite well if one learned correctly, and did not even know what it was called. I have seen this with guitar students that spent just a few months in spain with gitanos, and came back playing solea por bulerias compas and a few falsetas of Tomatito, just perfect. Did not know who composed it or what it was called or used for, but could do it better than most bookworm flamencologists. I think if you find yourself studying up so much you know when a good artist is doing it "wrong", then you have got it all backwards. Of course if you CAN do it (sing it or dance it or play it "right") then that is different. But basically if you find yourself argueing with the flamencos, then you are probably too much of a bookworm. The best thing is to be physically involved of course. The Caña thing is very trivial. You have to just go with the dancer. Best to practice it twice so you know that it will always be the same. But eventually you can just "sense" if you need to make it longer or not. I dont' think 6 or 7 beats. I just keep it pretty free and try to be tight with any rhythmic sounds, and not rush the singer through it. (redoble for example on the arepegio) About doing your own thing, it is certainly good as long as it is concidered "flamenco" by your peers. In my experience there are some that start composing their own stuff a little prematurely and are missing out on some important details hidden subtle in the work of the maestros. Then they think they are "advancing " by doing their own thing, and get put off when an aficionado says "something is missing....". But of course there are those that only play trad falsetas and rhythms. But honestly for flamenco, that is OK. Ideally the guitarist will compose his own stuff after getting a foundation in the traditions. It has been said before that young players are starting with modern PDL and Amigo as a base, and that is not good. I would tend to agree, but it really depends on the final product. Ricardo

Guest -> [Deleted] (Oct. 30 2006 2:57:07)
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Ricardo -> RE: HOW MUCH DO YOU LIVE FLAMENCO A DAY (Oct. 30 2006 3:35:26)
quote: a great ear and miss stuff all the time You mean tonos, compas? Sure mistakes are made, but that was because they did not know where a cante came from in the flamenco encylopedia? Nah. quote: If you aren't listening actively you aren't going to notice it is "wrong." Point being that it is the listening or studying that is important. I guess my point is for accompanying, it did not matter how you are used to hearing it, you have to get it correct in the moment. For the guys standing in the back with their arms folded across their chests saying "that is not how it goes"...well, too bad for them. But we are generalizing. So its much better to have specific examples. I saw a guy accompany this singer por Alegrias. He did fine all along. But then the singer tried something new "El un marinero en tierra" by vicente. I know those chords. The Accompanist did not get them, but he played chords that worked fine. I mean the idea that he did not study that, did it wrong, but it is still good performance and "flamenco", THAT is my point. My bookworm ass could not have done an overall better job just because I knew some fancier "correct" chords. It might have seemed worked out anyway, and only the singer and I would have known I got it on the fly. quote: As for the cana, that has very specific remates depending on whether it is danced or sung only. If it is danced it will often be 7 beats and out of compas. That is not the only way but again, chance favors the prepared mind. Ok, fine that you look at it that way. For me it is a very minor simple thing in the big picture of the entire dance, or entire show. I mean do you really sit there thinking that little part had an extra beat and is therefore out of compas? I mean, yeah I guess it is technically, but that is just how it is done, so what is the big deal? Just go with what is required, no need to make a big intellectual compas revelation about a little arpegio ending. [:D] Ok, but I know flamenco is fun, and it is fun to anaylize beats and stuff. I am just saying no need to go overboard. quote: How did you get to be a flamenco nerd, you seem kind of elitist as a flamenco nerd Well I simply awarded myself that title and had a private ceremony over it. Nothing to be especially proud of, it is common amongst those of us born in the wrong country.[;)] Ricardo

Guest -> [Deleted] (Oct. 30 2006 3:51:04)
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Ricardo -> RE: HOW MUCH DO YOU LIVE FLAMENCO A DAY (Oct. 30 2006 4:12:42)
Ok sorry man, I wont cut in anymore. Just one thing about going to spain and learning from scratch vs going "well read". Sometimes, NOT ALWAYS, preconcieved notions can get in the way of learning properly. "unlearning what you have learned" as YODA says, can be a pain in the butt, something a complete novice need not be burdened with. It is not a problem if the "well read" person goes to learn ready and willing to trash it all if necessary. Just a thought. Ricardo

Guest -> [Deleted] (Oct. 30 2006 4:40:06)
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sonikete -> RE: HOW MUCH DO YOU LIVE FLAMENCO A DAY (Oct. 30 2006 7:06:17)
I understand the problem with some flamencoholics (flamencologists) and the anthropological university approach, but this isnt a "one thing vs another" is it? I mean i have singers to work with but that doesnt make me want study old cante less. Playing with some older style singers make me want to study more so i can enjoy the finer points of their interpretation and become better.

Florian -> RE: HOW MUCH DO YOU LIVE FLAMENCO A DAY (Oct. 30 2006 7:10:09)
I think we all need to do what we can, if that means because of lack of singers in your living room at 2 am practice with a cd that only has cante or whatever. I am done apologising to people for not beeing born in spain but loving flamenco, i am done apologising for doing the best i can getting ideas from cds, videos. i am done apologising for my level, i am done apologising to people for my taste in flamenco sound and i am expecially am done for apologising to people about not apologising.

Guest -> [Deleted] (Oct. 30 2006 7:19:43)
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John O. -> RE: HOW MUCH DO YOU LIVE FLAMENCO A DAY (Oct. 30 2006 10:48:13)
Now I've never been in Spain with the gypsies so what I write here may be wrong, but it's what I think with my experience. For me there's two important elements to playing music right - correct rhythm and chords (purely technical) and the emotion which goes into it, giving it a certain flavor. I don't mean "playing with feeling", I mean the basic interpretation of what a song should express. I could imagine the need to understand what the singer is singing to feel with him and put the peaks and valleys in the right places, but I'm not sure about origin. Lots of people speak the English language not knowing which elements are anglosaxon or latin, they still speak it correctly if they understand the meaning. Some origins I choose to ignore. When I accompany a guajira I like to imagine the dancers with their fans flirting with the male audience and not some fat farmer strolling though the fields... [&:] As far as living flamenco... This could mean spending the whole day everyday having something to do with the music, which I wish so much I could do. In the other sense of the attitude towards life, I never really understood that. At least living outside of Spain that to me has absolutely no meaning. Surely I'm missing something or there wouldn't be so many people talking about it. I do have a subscription to two flamenco mags, one local and one from Spain. It helps to know what's out there and to read what highly respected flamencos think about questions such as these. As one would think, age plays an important role. Also you do read names, songs and techniques over and over and eventually a lot of information sticks... No real pro or con here, just a bunch of thoughts in no particular order...

Florian -> RE: HOW MUCH DO YOU LIVE FLAMENCO A DAY (Oct. 30 2006 11:10:21)
i think the only important think to flamenco is to have a heart and personality because the rest, technique, long black hair , everything else can grow :-)

Guest -> [Deleted] (Oct. 30 2006 16:26:53)
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Kate -> RE: HOW MUCH DO YOU LIVE FLAMENCO A DAY (Oct. 30 2006 19:50:13)
quote: The first book is a brief history and cultural overview of the gypsies. The second is about vocal techniques employed to get some of the sounds they get. I love the part when he talks about the Gypsy cannibals . Seriously !!! It is a book of its time, with a lot of prejudice and misunderstanding, and should be read as such, with a big pinch of salt. In the glossary of Calo there are quite a few mistakes, no doubt his teachers were having a laugh, I was told the word Borrow claims means to make love actually mean to fart !! Kate

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