Fake or true Hermanos Conde on E bay? (Full Version)

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ChrisAudio -> Fake or true Hermanos Conde on E bay? (Jul. 26 2006 10:07:25)

Hi evrybody,

What do you thing about this guitar on E bay? Someone knows this model?
The seller has sold these guitar for 550€ 3 months ago. Could it a be true hermanos Conde guitar? On Hermanos Conde website, there is a advertissment informing customers that some fake Hermanos Conde guitars are presented on E Bay.
http://cgi.ebay.fr/GUITARE-CONDE-HERMANOS-FLAMENCA-flamenco_W0QQitemZ170011789516QQihZ007QQcategoryZ104467QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



JBASHORUN -> [Deleted] (Jul. 26 2006 10:50:32)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 11 2011 19:47:15



PacoPaella -> RE: Fake or true Hermanos Conde on E bay? (Jul. 26 2006 12:02:14)

The label says its an estudio model. Those are the cheap consumer line models which are actually made by sanchis iirc, and get labeled as condes. They usually have a different headstock. I had one once it was an ok guitar but not comparable in sound and playability to the real Condes.



JBASHORUN -> RE: Fake or true Hermanos Conde on E bay? (Jul. 26 2006 13:10:27)

PacoPaella,
what about that second Ebay conde- any opinion on that one? is it genuine?

Cheers,

Jb



PacoPaella -> RE: Fake or true Hermanos Conde on E bay? (Jul. 26 2006 15:47:12)

Hey James,

quote:

ORIGINAL: JBASHORUN

PacoPaella,
what about that second Ebay conde- any opinion on that one? is it genuine?

Cheers,

Jb


i havent the slightest idea, this is a vintage instrument and i dont know which conventions conde respected by that time. I will ask my flamenco Guru.



Patrick -> RE: Fake or true Hermanos Conde on E bay? (Jul. 26 2006 16:41:36)

quote:

What do you thing about this guitar on E bay? Someone knows this model?


It's not a fake. It is what it is. Conde's low-end student model.

The Half Moon (Media Luna) headstock is used only on the high-end Conde's.



Guest -> RE: Fake or true Hermanos Conde on E bay? (Jul. 26 2006 17:14:43)

quote:

The Half Moon (Media Luna) headstock is used only on the high-end Conde's.


If only this were true[&:] But I have seen a row of media luna mastiles waiting to be assembled into guitars, in a factory in Valencia.

Sean



TANúñez -> RE: Fake or true Hermanos Conde on E bay? (Jul. 26 2006 17:50:36)

quote:

If only this were true But I have seen a row of media luna mastiles waiting to be assembled into guitars, in a factory in Valencia.


What do you think Conde's are? I know of one "factory" in Valencia where some Conde's are made. It really should make no difference where these are made or by whom, if they sound great and play great, who cares who makes them?



vasileos -> RE: Fake or true Hermanos Conde on E bay? (Jul. 26 2006 19:34:35)

I agree with Tom. If the guitar plays good and sounds good, then the only other thing that matters is the player. Thousands of guitarists use Martin, Gibson, Taylor, Santa Cruz and Collings guitars and they are all factory made. They sound great. What we (the audience) love first is the music created on the guitar. As guitar players we get caught up in the hype about guitars, this one is better because so and so played it, etc. If you pick up the guitar and you like the feel, playability and sound, then it's a great guitar FOR YOU. It doesn't matter what others think, it's all very subjective anyway. Not long ago I played a Ricardo Sanchis 1 F extra flamenco blanca. That was a great guitar. It's sound was fantastic- to my ears. I have played a few others, a fantastic Barba blanca, Reyes and Reyes Hijo, Gerundino and Conde. The Ricardo Sanchis was as nice as most of the others, but that's my ears and hands, not any of yours.

So, buying by label is not a good way to go. Buying off ebay doesn't really give one an opportunity to try the guitar first unless the seller agrees to give a trial period which is very rare. Buying from a private party or dealer and trying the instrument first is better. Not all guitars are equal to any individual player, no matter if factory or luthier made.

Again, people are paying ridiculously large amounts of money for vintage factory made Fender guitars all the time. They like them, they sound like they want them to sound, and they play well.



Patrick -> RE: Fake or true Hermanos Conde on E bay? (Jul. 26 2006 19:52:54)

quote:

If only this were true But I have seen a row of media luna mastiles waiting to be assembled into guitars, in a factory in Valencia.


Sean,

You and I both know that's the case. It's well documented. The fact is the Media Luna is resereved for the high-end (more expensive) Conde's. That doesn't make them better, just more expensive.



bernd -> RE: Fake or true Hermanos Conde on E bay? (Jul. 26 2006 23:44:22)

I agree with Tom. If a guitar is good, then it´s equal what is printed on the label.

Here is an example: click



nickeyg -> RE: Fake or true Hermanos Conde on E bay? (Jul. 27 2006 1:04:31)

I agree that if it sounds great then it's great, but I also think that it is logical for people to expect some type of reasonable methodology to evaluate guitars. With almost all other merchandise the quality is reflected in price. That is somewhat general but I think overall it is true. If a Conde costs $8500.00 plus tax then I don't think it is unreasonable for that individual to expect more attention to details than a student Conde for $1500.00. They should in general sound better and not just be pure marketing hype. I find the whole Conde thing very disappointing. Nick



nickeyg -> RE: Fake or true Hermanos Conde on E bay? (Jul. 27 2006 3:28:43)

Another point, consider my situation: I live in Knoxville TN. There are no flamenco guitars to evaluate in my area. Say I want to buy a Conde. Well either I can go to Spain or buy from a dealer in the USA. If Conde had a higher standard with say their best luthiers, the best materials working on their most expensive models, and discarding the duds, then I would have bought a Conde a long time ago. The current situation is there is no way to judge a Conde without great additional expense. A) Someone sending me guitars or B) travelling to play one of these guitars. It would also benefit people who sell guitars because buyers would have more confidence in their claims that "this is a great Conde" which is what is always said. Also there is really nowhere in the US with enough volume of Condes to get the perspective of what is a good sounding Conde. Nick



tk -> RE: Fake or true Hermanos Conde on E bay? (Jul. 27 2006 4:31:00)

This is getting interesting, some negative and some positive points on Condes. I own 2 different conde's from the Felipe V shop. They are both amazing guitars. The AF25/R is the one that is sooo easy to play. It doesn't necessarily have the best sound. But I have to say it is fast and very comfortable to play.

Guitars carrying the name "Conde Hermanos" labels are sold in 3 different locations. It is very hard to believe that the Conde's from the Felipe V shop are manufactured somewhere else. They are High End instruments and very consistent. I have played so many AF25/R and I can tell that it is very hard to imagine they are factory made. What makes you think it is the Felipe V shop Conde's i nthe factory? What if it was the Gravina 7 or the other shop Conde?

If they are factory made how come Gerardo Nunez plays a A26, Tomatito plays a AF25R, Paco plays a AF25R etc...

The second one I own is the Domingo Esteso Reedition model, and let me tell you in one sentence.." It is out of this world..." You guys should try to test drive it once before you even comment! Amazing guitar with very sharp, precise and barking sound....No way made by a non professional.

I don't mean to disagree with the rest but I think what you guys are saying is kind of biased I don't know why? The guitars are not bad guitars at all and it gives that impression if I read the comments.

Thanks

TK



Guest -> [Deleted] (Jul. 27 2006 17:40:24)

[Deleted by Admins]



tk -> RE: Fake or true Hermanos Conde on E bay? (Jul. 27 2006 18:31:18)

nealf,

Being documented on other forums by knowledgeable people is really not relevant because they are still opinions and not necessarily facts.

As to your comment about the Devoe and Aaron Green production, who make very nice guitars, being 20-25 guitars a year has a reason too. These guys make all the process A-Z in their shop vs. the Conde brothers outsource the finishing (French Polish) part of the process to a third party. Would you say that because the french polish on a guitar is made by XYZ therefore the guitar is not made by the Conde brothers? I doubt!

First, if you really want do the math, here is a fact. The Conde brothers at Felipe V shop have a 3th guy who help them build the guitars along with the 2 main brothers. They make an average of 75 guitars a year (among the 3 of them) for their high end instruments (including the A26, AF25, AF25R, Felipe V and Domingo Esteso Reedition). Guitar Salon Int'l (being their major and the biggest retailer in the world) sells about 20 - 25 high End Conde's per year, therefore the rest of the 50 guitars (75 -25) are floating around in the rest of the world with other distributors. How many of new Conde AF25R do you think you can have in U.S.? There are only 2 major retailers who can sell you: GSI in LA. and Luthier in New York. I think the math makes total sense. I think we both agree that it is rare to find other retailers who can sell you a BRAND NEW Conde. They are probably old/used ones (other the 50 new guitars/year avalaible) because these brothers were around long time ago even before they openned their own shop.

I own a Devoe Negra as well and I can tell you that Lester makes the guitar completely by himself including the finishing (usually Lacquer and not French).

Thanks for chatting,

TK



Guest -> [Deleted] (Jul. 28 2006 3:23:05)

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