Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Full Version)

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Ron.M -> Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 22 2006 19:44:46)

"For me, rhythm in flamenco - and I think in music in general - is essential.
But in flamenco especially, if you don't have rhythm you'll never be a good, complete guitarist.
You might be able to pull off some neat tricks, you might have great technique, great knowledge, anything you want.
But I prefer a guitarist that has rhythm, even if he only knows two simple falsetas and nothing else .."

- Paco de Lucia 1998



duende -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 22 2006 22:25:26)

i totally agree with that.



Doitsujin -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 22 2006 22:36:38)

I agree, too. And if you have all the points which he counted above AND compas? Would be much cooler no?[8D]
But thats right. Without compas-feeling, flamenco wont be enjoyable.



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 22 2006 22:55:38)

Ron, maybe you should have posted this a few days ago in a the "you know what" thread. Or maybe not...

I have been getting into classical guitar and South American styles lately, and I still find a need for perfect rhythm. It's just what sounds good to me. LIsten to this guy. I think he is the best guitar player I've ever heard. Although playing classical, to me, his rhythm is impeccable:






Doitsujin -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 23 2006 9:11:27)

Wow, what a good player. Here he does some damn fast long picadoruns. Hes very fast and his fingers do movements around 5-6 cm. So its possible to play that fast with big movement!



koella -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 23 2006 9:40:16)

When you know the orchestrated version of moussorgsky's pictures at an exhiition, it's incredible that Yamashita plays it on only one guitar.



JBASHORUN -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 23 2006 11:02:19)

quote:

But I prefer a guitarist that has rhythm, even if he only knows two simple falsetas and nothing else .."

- Paco de Lucia 1998



I'm told Juan Martin has good compas...


Jb



cneberg -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 23 2006 11:28:09)

That's true, but it's coming from the mouth of a guy, who's been playing since his early childhood, for probably 8-10 hours a day. I think almost everybody can get this holly thing called rhythm in his/her's blood with such amount of good training. It's just a matter of time. The talented ones need less time and the others more time.

Of course this is essential if you want to be a complete/professional guitarist, like he said, but it doesn't mean that much if you play your music just for yourself, for your own joy and pleasure.



Doitsujin -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 23 2006 12:06:36)

Thats right.

Let me add something.

quote:

But I prefer a guitarist that has rhythm, even if he only knows two simple falsetas and nothing else .."


without talking too much in 2 sentences:

If you have no compas, your are nothing.. If you have compas but no good compositions..you are still nothing, but a litte better than without compas.



Guest -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 23 2006 14:40:39)

quote:

If you have no compas, your are nothing.. If you have compas but no good compositions..you are still nothing, but a litte better than without compas.


****. Flamenco guitarists in Andalucía with real compás never stop working, compositions or not. But they know how to accompany cante and/or baile.

Sean



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 23 2006 15:08:15)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin


If you have no compas, your are nothing.. If you have compas but no good compositions..you are still nothing, but a litte better than without compas.

What if you have good compositions but no compas?



Guest -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 23 2006 15:36:27)

What if you have good compositions but no compas?

Then you are a guitarist but not flamenco. If your intention is to compose within flamenco and still you have no compas, you are not even a good musician.

Sean



Doitsujin -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 23 2006 16:34:32)

quote:

What if you have good compositions but no compas?


Yes sean, I think that, too. It would be very hard for the crowd to enjoy your playing. Paco would prefer listening to a primitive player who has compas.
Here is an example on how bad a good composition can be also if the player is able to play damn fast....



P.S. me too.

quote:

****. Flamenco guitarists in Andalucía with real compás never stop working, compositions or not. But they know how to accompany cante and/or baile.


We are only talking here about playing "falsetas = composition" and not for cante.

I know there is a world of good players also outside andalucia who play great without falsetas only for singing and dancing. And they get money for that...Me too (for playing for dancing and singing).[;)] But its not topic here.



Ron.M -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 23 2006 20:04:38)

quote:

If your intention is to compose within flamenco and still you have no compas, you are not even a good musician.


[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

Anyone want to top that?


Ron



Ron.M -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 23 2006 20:42:34)

quote:

Here is an example on how bad a good composition can be also if the player is able to play damn fast....


Na Doit,
They've got ritmo and musicianship too, not just speed.
Hell...I've paid good money to see folk less exciting!

Study hard...and one day my son you too will be able to be a busker..[:D][:D]

cheers

Ron



Ron.M -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 23 2006 20:52:35)

Very exciting player Mike.
Makes the Classical players of my generation sound quite tame by comparison.
(I think old J.S. himself would have given him a standing ovation. [:D])
Thanks for the link.

cheers

Ron



Ron.M -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 23 2006 21:20:25)

quote:

Study hard...and one day my son you too will be able to be a busker..


Just thinking about it...that's got more truth in it than just a simple joke.
In reality, the general public..and even those more knowledgeable, who are not devotees to music, but buy CDs and concert tickets on a whim, actually don't have a flipping clue as to who is good and who is not!

Put Tomatito on a bench in the Pedestrian Shopping precinct of Stockton-on-Tees, and sure, folk would stop and listen for a few minutes and some wealthier ones drop a few coins into his hat.

Put him in the Albert Hall, London...and you've got folk outside selling tickets at twice the normal price.

Crazy world!

(I think Mike's latched onto that idea already though!....[:D] )

cheers

Ron



Doitsujin -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 23 2006 22:30:30)

I allways thought about making some fast easy money with playing some rumbas with a friend in the street. Here in my town is a street which is extremely expensive. All the rich snobs walk around there and wanna be watched. The chairs of the cafees there are put in the position to watch the people on the pedestrian and not the nice woman who is out with you for having a drink. They are all a bit ballaballa there. I saw a violin-player. She had her violinbox full with money.... wow... I think with some nice Rumbas I could get as much or more...more MOOOREEEE MUHHAHAHA.. MOOOOOOOOORRREEEE!!!!! $$$$$$$$$ eehmm... sorry.. its late over here. I go to bed now... (=_=)



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 23 2006 22:40:31)

Go for Doit, might as well make some money. Better than playing for free for some that big woman dancer that was giving you trouble before :)

I've never busked before, but I think it might be good to teach you to play while people are watching and to develop some showmanship.



Nemo Nint -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 24 2006 4:01:15)

I agree with Paco's opinion more than I used to because I used to be uninformed!

But what I wonder is how much the accent is important to the compas?

Compas as far as I have learned is the specific flamenco form's set of bars of notes that tie falsetas together. Accents by emphasized notes/strums or accents by golpes or other techniques are secondary and optional but are very useful for adding more life to the composition. How's that?

Okay I'm still very much lesser informed than most of the members of this board.
[&o]



Doitsujin -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 24 2006 8:18:58)

^^ Oh.. please dont remind me on this nightmare Miguel. Im happy that its past now. And I learned much from this situation. So it had a good side.

Yes Nemo your definition sounds ok for me. But compas is more than these rules. Do you know tabbing-programms like guitarpro? I think its a good example how important personal compas-feeling is. I mean you can write down all compases which ever have been played before. All the grooving stuff from conerts and CDs. Than you let the software play it. The software does it exacly with these rules, but it wont goove. At the end I wouldnt say that a software is able to play compas. Not the software of our days. I cant explain it better. Maybe nativespekears could do it fro me.



cneberg -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 24 2006 9:02:55)

quote:

Go for Doit, might as well make some money. Better than playing for free for some that big woman dancer that was giving you trouble before :)

I've never busked before, but I think it might be good to teach you to play while people are watching and to develop some showmanship.



First of all, I'm not talking about Doitsuin, because I don't know him. But I bet he's cool[;)] (besides he already said he's done it before - playing on the streets that is)

Second, I respect you Miguel, because you are a worker.

But there are many people who prefer sitting in their bedrooms and playing bulerias, then going out on the streets and play rumbas. It's pride, ego. It's silly, pathetic and you have to get rid of it.

My compañero has bad experiences with so called "awesome guitarists". They were so full of themselves, that they eventually didn't feel like playing in bars, because they have after all finished musical academies.......And now, you know what they do? Nada, they feel sorry for themselves and want to play with him again. Now that's pathetic.

You can play whatever you like as long as you don't call yourself flamenco guitarists. The worst thing is to become a slave of some kind of music. If you like it, you can play rumbas all night long. Life is short....

(Man, more and more I realize, where I live, almost every guitarists is a ****. Everyone feels somehow threathened by other guitarists and it's really sad.)



cneberg -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 24 2006 9:08:45)

Why is the word **** censored?



cneberg -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 24 2006 9:09:03)

Damn, it happened again!
[:D]



Doitsujin -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 24 2006 9:12:07)

Hmm.. if you wanna make some easy money on the streets with music, you have to play what most of the people like. And thats Rumba. I think on the street I dont have to show had bulerias or alegrias. It wont interest the people more than a simple Rumba with 3 chords. And I see no problem with that. In concert its a different thing. There the audicence often knows the stuff.

I never played on the streets during my life. Im just thinking about it. But only coz I wanna know how much money Im able to make in 2 or 3 hours with Rumbas.

I cant understand the other problems which you wrote about.



Ron.M -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 24 2006 20:39:11)

quote:

It wont interest the people more than a simple Rumba with 3 chords.


And what does that tell you about "people"?
Who, after all are the "paying public"? [:D][:D]

cheers

Ron



koella -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 24 2006 21:04:12)

Is that maybe also the reason why I ( and others maybe) stick to the old school music ?
Because it might be more accesible to untrained ( not flamenco ) ears ?



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 24 2006 21:50:47)

My experience is this--the music which is closest to the music the people listen to, is the one they will enjoy.

The further it gets away from what they listen to everyday, the less they can understand it. And without that understanding, they have no basis for actually enjoying it. The only exception is that of exoticism. There is a certain appeal of something different and foreign and evocative other cultures, that some people like. These people are your friends!

I had this illustrated recently while playing for some friends of my wife. When I played Samba pa ti and Europa simple melodies with rather typical chord progressions, they listened to every note. When I played classical or solea, etc., their attention started wandering and eventually they started talking amongst themselves. It was a good reminder of what people really like. The funny thing is that I played the Samba and Europa very lightly and inconsequentially, but they shut up and listened intently. The other pieces, much more challenging and valuable to me, simply went over their heads and became background music.

It is a good idea for a musician to make some effort to find music that both he and his customers like. I feel sorry for the classical guitarists that I know who have studied too much and now like atonal 20th cent. music that they can't play at gigs because someone would tell them to tune their guitars. Likewise, it must be hard for the flamenco who plays only bulerias for singers to try to play for normal people who think cantaorers need to be put out of their misery and bulerias sounds too much like heavy metal. I respect them but it must hard to play for norma people.

But you can mix and match. Some bones to be tossed to audience here, some bulerias there, a pop song arranged for guitar here, a challenging piece there.



JasonM -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 25 2006 1:44:44)

I Have the same experiences when playing for friends and familiy too. For some reason, I always get asked to play guitar, and then 1 minute later I become backround music. It took me a long time to realize that most people are not impressed or moved by flamenco guitar. I was the second I first heard it, so I figured it must be an undiscovered gem in America. Yeah right! Its definetely a different music culture in ethnomusicololigal terms. Even to me, without the Jazz influence, straight, traditional, raw Flamenco music sounds really foreign to me.

Funny thing too is that I just got back into flamenco after a long brake, where I was playing some other music, and noticed that it took me a second to get used to the dissonant harmonies, but especially chord progressions that aren't tonic- dominant -subD/ American etc. I was saying to myself "wow my guitar really does sound like its out of tune!"

By the way, I think Doitsujin has a good point with the computer being able to stay in compas. I think Paco is talking about feel or feeling, but also with good timing because that is part of what makes music subconciously enjoyable. "white boy ain't got no rhythm." Sure he does. He just can't dance becuase he can't "feel [8|] ".



JasonM -> RE: Quote from a Paco de Lucía Interview (Jul. 25 2006 3:10:53)

quote:


But there are many people who prefer sitting in their bedrooms and playing bulerias, then going out on the streets and play rumbas. It's pride, ego. It's silly, pathetic and you have to get rid of it.

Thats true. If every artist/musician created based on what other people might like there would be no real art and Only Ms. Spears and her babies.

quote:


You can play whatever you like as long as you don't call yourself flamenco guitarists. The worst thing is to become a slave of some kind of music. If you like it, you can play rumbas all night long. Life is short....

Thats interesting because I have been thinking about/experiencing that lately. If someone plays one genre of music every day, studies music in college, plays for a living, plays flamenco everyday for years. eventually they must get tired of it. Mabey some days they love it and some days they hate it, but yet can't live with out it? Its monotony. Just like many people get sick having the same wife or the same job for 40 years, but yet still love their wife and job. What if you are in limbo? I need to stop rambling, my guitar is calling! LOL!



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