2 finger tremolo techniques? (Full Version)

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JBASHORUN -> 2 finger tremolo techniques? (Jul. 7 2006 20:38:53)

Its early days with my tremolo technique. So I've been experimenting with just using 2 fingers for tremolo style playing. Below is one example. What I would like to know, is if this is still considered a "tremolo" and if it has any place in Flamenco.

One example is below:


1>-------0----0-------0----0--------0-----------0----0--------0----0--------0
2>
3>
4>
5>
6>---0-----------0-------------0-----------3--------------3---------------3----

1>--------0----0--------0----0--------0-------------0----0--------0----0------0
2>
3>
4>
5>---2-------------2---------------2-------------3--------------3-------------3--
6>

1>--------0----0--------0----0--------0-------------0----0--------0----0--------0
2>
3>
4>
5>
6>---3-------------3-------------3---------------2-------------2---------------2--

1>--------0----0--------0----0------------0---------------0----0-------------0
2>
3>
4>
5>
6>---1-------------1----------------1-----------------0-------------------0-----


Stand by for a Fandangos De Huelva one...


Jb



JBASHORUN -> RE: 2 finger tremolo techniques? (Jul. 7 2006 21:00:21)

ok, here's the fandangos de huelva style one:

1>---------0-------0------------------0---------0--------------------0------------
2>------0--------0--------0--------1---------1-----------1-------1---------------
3>
4>
5>-------------------------------0----------0--------0-------0-----------0------
6>---0--------0--------0-----------------------------------------------------3---1

1>---------0----------0----------------------0----------0-------------------------
2>-------0----------0----------0---------0-----------0----------0----------------
3>
4>
5>
6>---0----------0----------0----------0----------0----------0--------------------

I think all the notes in these examples are the same length: 1/2 beat or 1/4 beat. Apart from maybe the 3 and 1 on the 6th string of the fandangos one?

what do you think?


Jb



Miguel de Maria -> RE: 2 finger tremolo techniques? (Jul. 7 2006 21:57:53)

Dude,
you have to be joking. If you can't swing the 5 note tremolo from the beginning, maybe you should take up Punk or something.

Just kidding, J! I think it's a great idea to break down the technique. In my opinion, you learn better starting as small as possible. Bit by Bit. But you're not going to get anywhere without a good daily dose of sloooooooow, metronomic practice. Make sure to make that a part of your day.

Get at it! :)



Doitsujin -> RE: 2 finger tremolo techniques? (Jul. 7 2006 22:04:22)

Looks like a lokal alignment ..... You study bio too JBASHORUN? Crazy.^^



JBASHORUN -> RE: 2 finger tremolo techniques? (Jul. 8 2006 11:22:53)

quote:

Dude,
you have to be joking. If you can't swing the 5 note tremolo from the beginning, maybe you should take up Punk or something.


lol, been there, done that, bought the t-shirt! I've decided that thrash, metal, rock and flamenco is too many things to learn. I'm ending up spending such a small amount of time on each that I'm not progressing very fast. So its just flamenco from here on! (although I'll keep my electric guitar just in case).

Thanks for the advice, though Miguel. I came up with 2 finger tremolos because I have trouble using my ring (annular) finger when doing tremolo, so I found that by eliminating it altogether, I could pick up a bit more speed. But I think the result is probably closer to something a classical guitarist might play... the Fandangos example kinda reminds me of something called "The Clawhammer" which I was once taught. But you're right... its back to the slow, methodical practise with a metronome I think...


Cheers,

Jb



hamia -> RE: 2 finger tremolo techniques? (Jul. 8 2006 13:50:35)

You can repeat fingers to good effect - eg pimi works very well, as do other combinations.


quote:

ORIGINAL: JBASHORUN

quote:

Dude,
you have to be joking. If you can't swing the 5 note tremolo from the beginning, maybe you should take up Punk or something.


lol, been there, done that, bought the t-shirt! I've decided that thrash, metal, rock and flamenco is too many things to learn. I'm ending up spending such a small amount of time on each that I'm not progressing very fast. So its just flamenco from here on! (although I'll keep my electric guitar just in case).

Thanks for the advice, though Miguel. I came up with 2 finger tremolos because I have trouble using my ring (annular) finger when doing tremolo, so I found that by eliminating it altogether, I could pick up a bit more speed. But I think the result is probably closer to something a classical guitarist might play... the Fandangos example kinda reminds me of something called "The Clawhammer" which I was once taught. But you're right... its back to the slow, methodical practise with a metronome I think...


Cheers,

Jb



Miguel de Maria -> RE: 2 finger tremolo techniques? (Jul. 8 2006 14:36:43)

J,
the m finger is the bane of my existence. I have realized this summer that it is my no. 1 problem in RH development. It helps to work on it and observe it and to feel how your arm counteracts its action against the string. I also have been playing scales and licks pm. This is an old fingering that lute players used for their fast runs. Apparently it is even faster than im, although it has a different sound and a natural swing. I have found that it really focuses and concentrates the m action for quicker development.



JBASHORUN -> RE: 2 finger tremolo techniques? (Jul. 8 2006 16:55:57)

quote:

You can repeat fingers to good effect - eg pimi works very well, as do other combinations.


Aha, so it can be used! In that case I will continue to practise this sort of technique. I could swear that PDL uses something very similar at the end of "Panaderos Flamencos".


Miguel,
My "m" technique isn't that bad, I mainly have a problem with the annular, and feel that my "a" finger is weaker than my "i" and "m". If I understand you correctly, you were referring to using "p" for the bass strings and then "m" for the trebles consecutively. I used a similar technique when I learnt the chorus to Isaac Albeniz's "Asturias Leyenda" (Grisha plays this song on his new CD). Its a bit like a tremolo technique, but only using one treble note between each bass note. Once you get the hang of the movement switching between "p" and "m", it becomes increasingly easier. Although I have to admit that I find "p" and "i" the easiest for this technique, and have no idea which one is the one Albeniz actually intended. If you're referring to scales and picado style playing with "p" and "m", then I find this quite tricky, although I can imagine that some might find the "pivoting" movement easier than "i" and "m"... I'll have to practice both for a while and see which one I prefer. The extra practice will do me good.

Thank you all for your advice!


Jb



Miguel de Maria -> RE: 2 finger tremolo techniques? (Jul. 8 2006 17:08:55)

J,
no I mean using pm exactly the same as im--for scales. Supposedly it is actually faster and easier to acquire. It won't sound the same but I think it's valuable to know anyway.



JBASHORUN -> RE: 2 finger tremolo techniques? (Jul. 8 2006 17:59:25)

quote:

I could swear that PDL uses something very similar at the end of "Panaderos Flamencos".


And Sabicas too, I think. For example on "La Boda De Luis Alonso".


Thanks Miguel, I'll give it a try!


Jb



JBASHORUN -> RE: 2 finger tremolo techniques? (Sep. 18 2006 19:58:48)

Aha!!!!!!!!

There is such a technique! According to the GM tuition book its called "Ayudado". Its mostly used by the "old school" guys, and is usually p,i,p,i,p,i, etc.

But I guess you could add other fingers to make other variations.

Jb



3edli -> RE: 2 finger tremolo techniques? (Sep. 19 2006 14:43:21)

quote:

J,
the m finger is the bane of my existence. I have realized this summer that it is my no. 1 problem in RH development. It helps to work on it and observe it and to feel how your arm counteracts its action against the string. I also have been playing scales and licks pm. This is an old fingering that lute players used for their fast runs. Apparently it is even faster than im, although it has a different sound and a natural swing. I have found that it really focuses and concentrates the m action for quicker development.


Miguel you should consider playing picado with i-a. I had a similar problem with my m finger. It was almost impossible to play fast picado because my nail on my m finger hooks downwards(strange, considering that its only on that finger) and used to catch strings. Since i've resorted to i-a picado my picado's become much faster and smoother than with i-m, but it took a while to build up. Give it a try [;)]

3edli



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