IM OFFENDED (Full Version)

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Guest -> IM OFFENDED (May 1 2006 2:35:09)

Are you offended that people get offended? Or do you just want to be offended so people are less inclined to offend you in the future. Maybye you like to be the offendee, or maybe your thing is being the offender, some may even have offendophobia. Perhaps if we spent less time getting offended and more time defending then there would be no reason to offend in the first place. Offending others may be a great past time but have you ever tried fishing, its pretty good too. Its hard not to offend anyone these days and usually if you never do, you probably never express your opinion. Are we here to walk on eggshells or are we here to discuss flamenco?[&:]



edgar884 -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 1 2006 3:49:08)

I'm guilty, but I must say for the most part I grow as a musician when I listen the the forum members and swallow my pride.

I say be Honest, be human and when your wrong but you don't realize it until later.

Apoligize.

I've made mistakes in my words but all in all this forum has humbled me and given me a new respect for Flamenco.

I truley love this forum and if anyone can't hang, I think they should quit bitching and go practice.


So lets discuss Flamenco.[:)]



bahen -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 1 2006 3:54:46)

Well said!



edgar884 -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 1 2006 4:06:09)

Thanx Bahen.[:)]



Francisco -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 1 2006 6:53:23)

I had this eloquent reply, which for some wierd reason, was deleted when I tried to post it. [:o]

"Am I offended when someone else becomes offended"? Nope, it's a natural state to be offended when the suitable provocation is provided.

It does take two to tango, though. IOW, even if adequate stimulus is provided to experience a specific emotion, we still have to be willing participants, and allow ourselves to experience said emotion. There are situations where we have less control over our emotions, and, at least for me, these include situations that involve the people in my life that I care deeply about.



carlos soto -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 1 2006 13:17:27)

I must say it depends, I couldn't care less for some people that I don't respect at all but from someone who I care about it annoys me, eventually if it's something serious I change that person to the couldn't care less group. On the other hand I don't understand why but some people tend to take everything way too personal, and there's no room for humour when that happens.



Ron.M -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 1 2006 19:51:24)

quote:

Are we here to walk on eggshells


I love the imagry of metaphors like that.

In my mind I like mixing them too..

Like... "Always speak softly...tiptoe on eggshells...and carry a Big Stick!"

LOL!

Or one I heard about a middle aged Bette Davis arriving at a Hollywood occassion and having the door opened for her by a pretty and up and coming young Starlet, smilingly and sneeringly commenting... "Age before Beauty..."

To which Ms. Davis replied.. "Yeah..and Pearls before Swine... "

Love it!

cheers

Ron



Guest -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 2 2006 2:09:30)

Yeah i like sayings too, but what is good is hearing a different spin on a very common saying. Example;
'one brick short of a load' or 'one kangaroo short of the top paddock' or ' one beer short of a six pack' or 'one tub short of a tupperware party' etc, my favourite for this bunch is 'the stairs dont quite reach the attic'. [:D]



Ricardo -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 2 2006 4:11:26)

When it comes to guitarists and other musicians and artists I admire, I find myself getting easily offended by negative, thoughtless, ill informed remarks. I have a fairly large list of such artists, and when it comes to the internet I find myself getting "offended" every time I log into music forums. I have been told numerous times to "grow a thicker skin" and other such comments when defending artists I admire from what I consider unfair criticism. And there are people who use the "IMO" thing as a license to push people's buttons.

I make it a point to avoid criticizing other artists that I might not really care for, because I know that somewhere out there there is someone who's life has just been saved by said artist. I might pipe in when I feel two artists are being compared that I feel are not in the same calibur, but I try to avoid making myopic statements like "he sucks...he has no feeling...he is a show off...just techniques..." or insinuating cleverly something negative that completely rights off the artist's work as worthless. If I do feel compelled to criticize for whatever reason, I try to be very specific and not do general right off of an artist as a whole.

So yeah I am EASILY offended by comments made about others. I don't want to "grow a thicker skin". I enjoy being vulnerable when it comes to what music can do to me emotionally, and I try to remain open to new things. An artitst who moves me deeply I will defend, because I consider my own personal deep feelings a serious matter. Other artists I may defend lightly or not get involved. If I don't like an artist today, there is a possbility he/she will save my life tommorrow. Why hurt someone's feelings, only to put my foot in my mouth later?

Ricardo



Exitao -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 2 2006 6:34:39)

To quote my dearly departed grandfather "fight you buggers, fight. I hate peace!"

I like it when you guys go at it for a few reasons.

When people take time to support their positions it's informative for those of us who don't have the wealths of knowledge that other might have. When you name drop artists and songs and etc i give me sources to search for that might not come up in other types threads.


Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Even in not-so-free countries people are going to have them regardless. It's just too bad that people have to take everything so seriously or can't manage to phrase things more delicately.



JBASHORUN -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 2 2006 13:48:10)

Personally, I only get offended when people are deliberately out to cause offense. I think its the sheer audacity that gets me. Even then, half the time I can't be bothered to get offended. But I'm aware that some people are more sensitive than others, so I make a point not to deliberately try and offend people. Callousness is not something I aspire to. So its a fine balance between relaxed honesty and respect.

Jb



JBASHORUN -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 2 2006 14:00:57)

quote:

To quote my dearly departed grandfather "fight you buggers, fight. I hate peace!"


And what kind of attitude is that? If you have some sort of problem its best to go work it out on a punchbag. Or see a therapist. Or channel it into your playing. Bickering is such a waste of time and energy unless it is objective, which it usually isn't.


Jb



Miguel de Maria -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 2 2006 14:11:39)

J,
you seem like such a thoughtful, sensitive guy. I'm still trying to square it with those booking phoots! :)



JBASHORUN -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 2 2006 15:23:11)

quote:

you seem like such a thoughtful, sensitive guy. I'm still trying to square it with those booking phoots! :)


"Booking phoots"? what are they? Well, we all know where nice guys finish... [&o]


Cheers,


Jb



Miguel de Maria -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 2 2006 16:34:48)

J,
when you posted those pictures of you going to jail! Or were those a joke then?



JBASHORUN -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 2 2006 16:45:32)

ahhh, the mugshots! They were actually for a project I did at artschool on "restriction"... real mugshots are not accessible to the public (or criminal) over here in England (as far as I know). I managed to arrange a whole day at the local police station, and they gave my the guided tour of the cells, waiting rooms, etc. I also took some photos inside the cells with me sitting on the padded bed thingy. The mugshot was the icing on the cake souvenir. I went on to argue that "money was my prison", due to lack of it. For a conclusion to the project, I made replica of a prison cell out of banknotes using photoshop, then copied and pasted an image of myself into it.

As for real crime, well... I only commited minor offenses as a teenager for the usual, things like drugs. It was part of my teenage rebellion phase, which thankfully I have long grown out of.

lol, and I bet you all thought I was an escaped convict!!!! [:D]


Jb



JBASHORUN -> [Deleted] (May 2 2006 17:30:32)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 11 2011 19:34:56



John O. -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 3 2006 10:29:07)

It's always okay to get offended, what's important is the reaction to which situation. Concerning music or favorite musicians in general there's never really any reason IMO to get too angry - passionate, though [;)] If it concerns a person's own playing it's a different story, of course.

When feelings get hurt, especially if it's on purpose, that to me is when it's worth making a stink about. I tend to be quite a puss about taking achievement-oriented criticism myself (guitar playing, work, etc.) and for the same reason am careful about giving it, but see it as my own weakness I need to work on and still invite people to give it honestly if it's constructive.

Any personal offensive stuff I can take well. Not witty, just apathetic - too busy with my own thoughts to care for another's negative ones [:)]



edgar884 -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 3 2006 14:14:42)

quote:

Any personal offensive stuff I can take well. Not witty, just apathetic - too busy with my own thoughts to care for another's negative ones

I love that saying John.[:)]



Guest -> [Deleted] (May 3 2006 14:28:55)

[Deleted by Admins]



Miguel de Maria -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 3 2006 16:01:22)

What's wrong with Devil's Advocate? Wasn't Tomatito in that one!?



John O. -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 3 2006 16:11:20)

WOO HA!

No, that was MI2, unless I missed him in the other.



Ricardo -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 3 2006 16:43:55)

quote:

Its hard not to offend anyone these days and usually if you never do, you probably never express your opinion. Are we here to walk on eggshells or are we here to discuss flamenco?


Ooops. Yeah I think "eggshells" will apply for some.[&:]

Ricardo



bahen -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 3 2006 18:54:02)

In the words of a stupid governor, don't be girly-men. [:D]



JBASHORUN -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 3 2006 18:59:16)

quote:

In the words of a stupid governor, don't be girly-men.


"Shtop Vhining!!!" (bad arnie impression!!! [:D])

Jb



Ron.M -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 3 2006 19:36:48)

Well, this is what I was on about earlier...
Argue the "idea", not the "person".
Go for the ball, not the man.

It's the "anchovie" argument IMO.

1. I don't like anchovies.
Respondant... Yeah..really?...I think they're great myself!

2. I don't like anchovies.
Respondant...(being a little more helpful analytically)...Yeah..really?...You know anchovies have got a lot of essential oils that are really good for you...what don't you like about them...the look or the taste?

3. I don't like anchovies.
Respondant...(now getting a bit more upset with the person)...Yeah ...really?... Go look at www.anchovie.com and get yourself an education pal...

4. I don't like anchovies.
Respondant... (in attacking mode and "visualizing" the writer in his/her own head and assuming things out of that self made creation.) ...Yeah...really?...Go look at yourself in the mirror pal...I bet you're a big fat bastard with a big gut from drinking beer and eating pretzels you lousy swine...and don't criticize what some folk are eating to maintain a healthy lifestyle you total ****!

Varying degees of responses to the same statement.


This Forum never really upsets my Karma for the reason that I never think that my opinion is more worthy or less worthy than anybody elses.
I appreciate and like extreme ideas so long as they are expressed without profanity or anger.
Sometimes it may seem I have put folk down...like that "out of the blue" post by someone, saying "listen to my friend here", like that one about the 17 year old English guy.
The post was basically saying F you you Internet tossers..listen to my friend here...this is what Flamenco playing is all about!!...
I had no malice in my heart when I corrected him by saying it wasn't bad, but there are young guys on this forum who play equally as well.
If folk like that need a push on to what the truth of the matter really is...that can only be helpful.
Living in a world of self delusion only lasts for so long...better facing it IMO.

If somebody uploads something and it blows my mind then it excites me!
Like, years back when ToddK tentatively came on the Flamenco Teacher forum and was barraged by a heap of nonsense and put downs about picks etc...
I listened to his stuff and thought it absolutely the best Flamenco I'd ever heard any "foreigner" play on the Internet.. without a doubt.

Gotta finish here..."The Apprentice" is on the telly in ten minutes and I've got to get grub ready for my daughter coming back from her swimming!

Stay cool folks,

Ron



JBASHORUN -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 3 2006 19:52:24)

Hey, that www.anchovie.com link was a dud!!! And I was expecting some fascinating facts about this often misunderstood seafood! [&o] [:D]

But seriously, I think all the above comments are equally valid, and we should all pay attention to them (myself included).


Jb



bahen -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 3 2006 20:50:00)

quote:

3. I don't like anchovies.
Respondant...(now getting a bit more upset with the person)...Yeah ...really?... Go look at www.anchovie.com and get yourself an education pal...


I don't appreciate the dead links, Ron. So gauche of you. [:D][:D]



JBASHORUN -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 3 2006 21:12:44)

Hey Ron, d'you remember a while ago there was a minor altercation on the foro, regarding some notes on technique one member had posted. Things got slightly outta hand and some unpleasant things said. You said that the guys had "long since stopped discussing Flamenco" and that it had a become "a man thing". I agree that differences of opinion will occur, and actually welcome them. But when people lose sight of what is important (Flamenco) it doesn't help anyone, and reflects negatively on the forum.

But you guys are right, its pointless trying to make everyone see eye to eye... its just not possible. [&o]

Jb



John O. -> RE: IM OFFENDED (May 4 2006 20:19:04)

quote:

People who use their ability to play guitar as a platform to foist their opinion on others


Hope you don't mean me there. People, I suck, don't listen to me! Oops, I just used my playing as a platform to foist my opinion that I suck - HELP, I CAN'T STOP!!! [:D][:D][:D]



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