just a thought (Full Version)

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ivan -> just a thought (Apr. 26 2006 23:00:49)

I was just listening to Vicente's ciudad de las ideas. What a great piece. I love the way he plays those bulerias falsetas in the piece. I know a lot of people don't like that particular piece too much, but it really shows his creative side and his impeccable sense of rhythm. You know how in classical you have the 3 top dogs: Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. Well in flamenco I think we have Paco de Lucia, Nino de pura and Vicente Amigo..
Ivan



Ricardo -> RE: just a thought (Apr. 27 2006 16:26:36)

Yup great stuff. He loves this D# tonality. I prefer Nunez when playing bulerias in this key, just my taste. Also Enrique del Melchor has some nice things, Tomatito too. I like em all honestly. Nino de Pura I have lots of respect for, but never really got deeply into his style.

Ricardo



Doitsujin -> RE: just a thought (Apr. 27 2006 16:36:00)

oh yes I love ciudad de las ideas, too. Im working on the tres notas thing. The sad thing is, Vicente does all his cool rumbas without a second guitar. So the parts between the theme...I have to find the chords.. thats the bad side of the modern stuff. If you have no complete orcestra in your garage you cant copy the stuff so good.. Sad, isnt it?



carlos soto -> RE: just a thought (Apr. 27 2006 17:42:47)

I agree with you, vicente is a poet composing and the way his ideas flow are pure mystique.
I prefer other compositions though, in this buleria the beginning is very deep, I love it but then it gets like he is just noodling around...I love vicente's music but his bulerias really lack poderio, at least to my taste. He has an incredible sence of rythm but I like his free tempo playing the most.

Doitsujin I know what you mean, with two guitars it's much easier to get it but that's the main reason I love flamenco, you don't need other instruments, electricity, picks, straps, cables... it's just you and the guitar and no one else, you have your own orquesta in your fingers!



Ricardo -> RE: just a thought (Apr. 27 2006 17:48:42)

quote:

So the parts between the theme...I have to find the chords..


Try this:
B(b9),//, Em9,//,Am7-D7,Gmaj7,//, B(b9),//,Em9,//, F#7(b9),//, B7(b9),//
Cm7, B7(b9), Em9,//, D7,//, C7,//B7, C7-B7, Em9,//, D7,//C7,//B7
Chorus

E(b9),//,Am7,//,B7(b9),//,Em9,//E7(b9),//Am7,//C,//Bm7,//,Am7,//
Chorus



DavidT -> RE: just a thought (Apr. 27 2006 18:57:12)

Ricardo,

What do the double slashes mean?



ivan -> RE: just a thought (Apr. 27 2006 19:29:26)

Ricardo,
I am just curious as to what about nino de pura's style you don't like much. Is it his sound, his tremolo? I can see when people complain about his sound, it can often sound like a pick.( but you know that has to do with how he attacks picados, with the thumb on the trebels) But man, his playing is in it's own league in my opinion. His compositions matured a lot more. Take Pozo Y caudal, what an incredible cd! I am just curious. Thanks,
Ivan



Doitsujin -> RE: just a thought (Apr. 27 2006 20:08:59)

Woouuw Thanks Ricardo! I will check it tomorroy imediately!! Thanks so much!



Ricardo -> RE: just a thought (Apr. 28 2006 5:43:48)

Double slashes are repeats I guess. I just thought of that while typing fast. Like in a chord chart you repeat a measure and use chord slashes or like a slash with dots around it I think. Been awhile since I read through chord charts.

In regards to N. de Pura, I never said there was anything I did not like about his playing. He sounds good. His technique is clean and he has the same speed as Paco. I guess he sounds not as "crispy" as Paco and some other players when he goes fast, maybe it is the way he holds his hand as you say, but honestly that does not bother me. I would not say he is as good as Paco for this reason (his sound), but again I do not hold that against him or any other player. I simply never got really inspired to learn any of his stuff. I enjoyed very much his accomp. of Aurora Vargas, and I have a video of him playing for her in a private christmas party, with his neck tie on. Really great work. He is just not in my top 3 fav. list that is all. My top 5 are Paco, Gerardo, M. Sanlucar, Tomatito, Vicente....for soloistas. Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Stravinsky.[;)]

Ricardo



ivan -> RE: just a thought (Apr. 28 2006 15:19:48)

thanks Ricardo. I was curious as to your opinion of Daniel. He doesn't play much anymore..Stays in Madrid most of the time. that's a shame. I know in his younger years he played out a lot. Ricardo, you are forgetting one of the other big flamenco dogs....El Viejin!!!!!! (:
Ivan



Miguel de Maria -> RE: just a thought (Apr. 28 2006 15:41:26)

Ricardo,
I'm surprised you put Manolo Sanlucar in there. Is it just on the strength of Tauromagia? That may be my favorite album, right up there with Almoraima, but the other stuff of his I have (only a couple of CDs) is not up to that standard and the guitar sound is weird and toy-like. Any other surefire recommendations of his albums that are great?



carlos soto -> RE: just a thought (Apr. 28 2006 19:16:37)

There's a sevillana he plays with Paco, I just think it's awesome.




Ricardo -> RE: just a thought (Apr. 29 2006 17:31:05)

quote:

I'm surprised you put Manolo Sanlucar in there. Is it just on the strength of Tauromagia?


Yes. It is enough for me to put him up there, because it affects me very deeply. I like some other things he has done too, more for the music itself than the guitar playing necessarily. Mariana Pineda for example...

Viejin...another good one. He has elements from all my favorites. Paco's macho technique, Vicente's lyricism and "suave"-ness with toque libre, Gerardo's low bass tunnings, etc. But he does not bring me anything new to put him in with the others as a SOLOISTA (in spanglish).

Accomp. is another matter. He is at the top as far as baile accomp. goes. Another up there is Canito. For cant-P. Cepero, Parrilla, J. Habichuela, Moraito, etc....different lists for different occasions. I like the "teams"-Paquera/Parrilla, Viejin/Canales or whoever dances good, Camaron/Tomatito or Paco, Indio Gitano/Nunez, Aurora Vargas/N. de Pura, Poveda/Chicuelo, etc...

Ricardo



ivan -> RE: just a thought (Apr. 29 2006 23:40:31)

good list Ricardo. A guitarist that is kind of underrated in flamenco was Paco Cepero. Have you ever seen clips of him from the 60's and early 70's? he was a monster and his picado was just as fast as the best of them. He has some interesting falsetas and a great alzapua that was a bit unorthodox but was awsome. If I can only get myself to get modern and get all this computer equipment to show you some interesting ideas (in the uploads video section) that Paco Cepero brought to flamenco. Ricardo what kind of guitar are you playing?
Ivan



Ricardo -> RE: just a thought (Apr. 30 2006 15:44:36)

Yeah I have seen him, Rito y Geografia has an entire mini concert of him. I have been pointing out the things you mentioned, for a long time on the forums. My favorite guitar is Conde cypress, but I use other guitars too sometimes. Depends on the gig I am doing. I have a cheaper guitar I like to use a lot lately, Hermanos Sanchis, maple back and sides. Here it is if have not seen this before (sorry to others, I get a lot of mileage off this vid):

http://michaelk101.com/todd/toddmp3/Bulerias.wmv

Take care amigo.

Ricardo



ivan -> RE: just a thought (Apr. 30 2006 16:29:23)

thanks Ricardo. Loved the sound of the Sanchis. Awsome toque Ricardo. Felicitaciones. Enjoyed it much!
Ivan



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