RE: Lateral tautness (Full Version)

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Richard Jernigan -> RE: Lateral tautness (Dec. 3 2025 23:52:42)

I may have been splitting hairs when I distinguished perception from measurable properties. But confusion may arise from the fact that the word "pulsación" can mean "perception" in Spanish (see the Real Academia definition above)--while its English cognate "pulsation" does not (see, for example, Merriam-Webster).

There's an anecdote about the 18th-century English scholar, lexicographer and wit, Samuel Johnson.

Dr. Johnson was notorious for his slovenly personal habits. While riding in a coach with a refined lady, she was so offended that she exclaimed, "Sir, you smell!"

"No, Madam," replied Johnson, "you smell. I stink."

RNJ



estebanana -> RE: Lateral tautness (Dec. 4 2025 0:56:25)

Dammit Ricardo! I brought it all to a touchy feely agreement that it’s a semantic thing and then you ride that nattering naybob of action horse again!

😂



estebanana -> RE: Lateral tautness (Dec. 4 2025 0:58:01)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

I may have been splitting hairs when I distinguished perception from measurable properties. But confusion may arise from the fact that the word "pulsación" can mean "perception" in Spanish (see the Real Academia definition above)--while its English cognate "pulsation" does not (see, for example, Merriam-Webster).

There's an anecdote about the 18th-century English scholar, lexicographer and wit, Samuel Johnson.

Dr. Johnson was notorious for his slovenly personal habits. While riding in a coach with a refined lady, she was so offended that she exclaimed, "Sir, you smell!"

"No, Madam," replied Johnson, "you smell. I stink."

RNJ



That’s it Richard! Don’t let Ricardo bully you. 😆



BarkellWH -> RE: Lateral tautness (Dec. 4 2025 2:39:03)

quote:

There's an anecdote about the 18th-century English scholar, lexicographer and wit, Samuel Johnson.

Dr. Johnson was notorious for his slovenly personal habits. While riding in a coach with a refined lady, she was so offended that she exclaimed, "Sir, you smell!"

"No, Madam," replied Johnson, "you smell. I stink."


Winston Churchill was famous for his "bon mots." Seated next to Lady Astor at a dinner party at which he had drunk copious amounts of liquor, Lady Astor exclaimed, "Mr. Churchill, you're drunk!"

To which Churchill replied, "Lady Astor, I may be drunk, but you're ugly, and tomorrow I'll be sober."

Bill



silddx -> RE: Lateral tautness (Dec. 4 2025 11:01:00)

quote:

Winston Churchill was famous for his "bon mots." Seated next to Lady Astor at a dinner party at which he had drunk copious amounts of liquor, Lady Astor exclaimed, "Mr. Churchill, you're drunk!"

To which Churchill replied, "Lady Astor, I may be drunk, but you're ugly, and tomorrow I'll be sober."

Bill


Actually, this is probably not true. There have been a few theories about this but I reckon this is likely the most useful https://winstonchurchill.org/churchill-bulletin/bulletin-031-jan-2011/drunk-and-ugly-the-rumor-mill/



estebanana -> RE: Lateral tautness (Dec. 4 2025 11:56:34)

In 2015 or thereabouts in heard an interview with Boris Johnson who if I recall correctly had written a book about Churchill. On his book tour he dropped that he feels akin to Winston in the way he comports himself as a patriot of British culture, history and politics.

I must have separated rib bone from rib cartilage from spasmic laughter.

Ok back to pulsacion….



Arash -> RE: Lateral tautness (Dec. 4 2025 12:45:19)

Luciano just made this video about Picado and string tension.
Now check out 11:35 [:D][:D] [:D]




BarkellWH -> RE: Lateral tautness (Dec. 4 2025 13:08:13)

quote:

Actually, this is probably not true. There have been a few theories about this but I reckon this is likely the most useful https://winstonchurchill.org/churchill-bulletin/bulletin-031-jan-2011/drunk-and-ugly-the-rumor-mill/


Even if it were Churchill channeling WC Fields, it makes a good story.

Bill



Ricardo -> RE: Lateral tautness (Dec. 4 2025 13:22:53)

quote:

But confusion may arise from the fact that the word "pulsación" can mean "perception" in Spanish (see the Real Academia definition above)--while its English cognate "pulsation" does not (see, for example, Merriam-Webster).


I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is that the word "ACTION" can also be a "perception", hence the two terms are translatable in Spanish/English, for what they are conveying. Since many factors affect the "opinion" of the action (including most importantly maybe, HOW you play as in "this action is easy!" and next guy same guitar "this feels like driving a truck compared to my guitar"), they are both umbrella terms that catch several objective facts. As we list these as if there are separate categories, we notice much overlap, but what I have always been getting at is, due to arguments ongoing, which of these objective facts PRECISELY DISTINGUISH the two, or fall outside of both categories and reside under only ONE?

Over time I have come to the conclusion it is ONLY the unicorn mysterious subjective bias junk, which I instinctively have discarded, and it was subsequently very nice to see one or two spanish luthiers address the issue SIMPLY as set up. Clean, clear, translatable, adjustable, fixable, etc., even if tailored to some individual perception. Pulsación=Action and we can now address the issues and reasons.



RobF -> RE: Lateral tautness (Dec. 4 2025 13:51:10)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

Luciano just made this video about Picado and string tension.
Now check out 11:35 [:D][:D] [:D]


Interesting. So, in the context he's describing the words "touch" or "feel" would be a good fit. As in "Luciano has a nice touch" or "Luciano has good feel". I've actually used both those terms in that context.

But I'm kind of coming around to Ricardo's point of view in some regards. Firstly, when adjusting a guitar's "pulsacion" really adjusting the action is the obvious thing you'd do, so what Amelia was saying is a practical interpretation. Also, I do understand Ricardo's frustration with all the vague terms guitarists use to describe the playability of an instrument. Even the OP video ..."plays like butter"..I mean WTF??? So distilling it down to something that's actually quantifiable isn't without merit.

It all comes back to language barriers and semantics. From the Spanish side we have the assertions that pulsacion is the equivalent of action, pulsacion is how the guitar feels in hand and now pulsation is how the listener describes a players touch. There's probably more. What the heck? Bottom line is, you can't blame us English guys if the Spanish don't even know how to speak their own language.[:@][:D]


P.S. Joking at the end there. I think I have a better understanding now. I think all three interpretations are likely correct. That means everyone wins and Ramzi's dastardly social engineering efforts now lie in ruins. HA!



Ricardo -> RE: Lateral tautness (Dec. 4 2025 14:13:43)

quote:

What the heck? Bottom line is, you can't blame us English guys if the Spanish don't even know how to speak their own language.


[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D] Exactly!!!



Ricardo -> RE: Lateral tautness (Dec. 4 2025 14:29:06)

quote:

Now check out 11:35


Right. So on guitars with higher action, I can simply play over closer to the hole. When the strings are low action, I have to move closer to the bridge or the strings don't return to set position fast enough. This situation can be instant changed by raising or lowering the saddle. The string tension, as I said affects the situation as well, hence I said before changing the saddle you can experiment with strings and brands. As I said as well, drop the pitch or raise the pitch to change the action as well. Paco used to tune some guitars very sharp in pitch (observed by capo position and resultant pitches), and this is simply due to not wanting to raise the saddle higher than it was. The tension is higher if you increase the pitch.

The focus about the right hand only, deserves its own terminology, hence for a long time I thought everybody meant "right hand action", until the magical unicorn claims kept cluttering the issue. But what Luciano is missing is the reality, that I also realized, is that the pressing of the left hand down to the fret IS RELEVANT to what your right hand also is feeling. BOTH are connected via the action set up. The movement closer to the bridge will be on guitars that, if you could objectively compare (and you can't unfortunately take the neck off and replace or change its angle) have quicker easier left hand response AS WELL. In other words, all things equal, if the neck moves forward, RAISING the strings above the frets, my right hand will ALSO have to move closer to the soundhole, to get a good feeling/response. The two are connected.

Compare 13:00 picado here:


To this, and notice his RH position 0:22, looks much closer to the bridge.



Arash -> RE: Lateral tautness (Dec. 4 2025 15:03:22)

Agree. But Luciano opened the door to the 4th dimension of Pulsacion.
Because he is now speaking of the actual player having a certain Pulsacion, not the guitar, if you pay attention of what he actually said ("he has a very good Pulsacion") [:D][8D]



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