|
Ricardo -> RE: Regino S de la Maza (Jun. 12 2025 16:20:34)
|
quote:
On the subject of pitch: Surviving wind instruments show that European orchestra pitch as recently as the mid-18th century was as low as A=415Hz, while church organs from that period show pitches as high as A=550Hz. This is just about the range from A-flat to C-sharp, according to the modern standard of A=440Hz.
apologies in advance, but this is heavy reading below about pitch and key info.
I have read this info, and more about it, as well. There was a story about Bach having to adjust some parts because some orchestra had horns tuned differently. So the only standard I am aware of is the human voice which has not evolved pitch wise as far as I know, since those early music days. If we take the split of the octave inside the break zone (pasagio) as conceptually between B4 and C5, I noticed a physical change in the natural voice between Bb4 and B4. So basically it would make sense to me that that practice might have been a typical thing to do, however a half step lower (pitch wise) than today's A4=440. If we adjust for the voice range that does in fact give us A4=415 ish. So as of now, I am leaning in the direction that in general, some of the smarter musicians were probably thinking about that "standard" ball park for what notes meant. Also we can consider how many modern rock guitarists would instinctively tune their guitars down to Eb as it suited most voices better and basically made all the music more robust or darker or whatever adjectives.
As to why A=440, I suspect it might have to do with bel canto techniques replacing the old church practice of chopping off teen boy's nuts and giving the family a stipend to keep their high voices in the choir. The Opera thing finally made it clear that even those boys had to learn a different technique to manage the pasagio because the vocal change at puberty is not really due to the nuts, at least in the high tenor range. So when the technique became more standardized I suspect the so called "tenor high C", the big "note" where that change occurs, shifted from B4 to C5. So over time instruments were designed around this idea that powerhouse singers wanted the higher key (string technology in stride with this development). Today opera singers don't have the luxury of telling the conductor "can we do this aria in Ab please, I am not feeling it today", the whole point of training is that you can deliver the full range night after night.
So yes this is all conjecture, but when we look back at renaissance music I have been trying to get a handle on both how the music functions and how it relates to music today. Here is a break down of the Narváez 8 modes and what is "inferred" by his suggestions.
Mode 1 (normally D dorian/minor). He says "primero tono por ge sol re ut", which I interpret to mean he is transposing the mode up to the higher soprano clef. So the C clef moving up to G clef means the normal pitch of "D" moves up a 5th, to "A". However he also provides "clef" indications as to how an additional transposition might be occurring conceptually. We can infer what that means for the tuning of the instrument:
Clef:G tuning implied,
Mode:G dorian/Minor,
G standard:G dorian/Minor (normal),
Modern Guitar:E dorian/minor capo 3.
Mode 2 (normally G dorian/minor final on D). Now it gets interesting to me.
Clef: E tuning implied
Mode: D dorian,
G standard:F dorian/minor (a m3rd up),
Modern guitar: D dorian/minor capo 0 (!!)
At this point it is not clear if he wants us to swap modes from the norm as per the clefs, or if that second mode from the view of G standard is transposed down a whole step from G down to F? Or is D dorian exactly what it would be on a modern guitar? These are the questions I have.
Mode 3 (normally E phrygian final on E, however, in his version his melodic E is harmonized by an A minor with picardy 3rd, aka, a plagal cadence final).
Clef: A tuning implied
Mode: E phrygian (plagal cadence to A)
G standard: D phrygian (down whole step due to implied tuning up a whole step)
Modern Guitar: B phrygian capo 5
Mode 4 (E phrygian normally the plagal version, he starts melody on A).
Clef:F# tuning implied
Mode: E Phrygian (starts on iv A note)
G standard: F Phrygian (half step sharp)
Modern guitar: D phrygian capo 2.
Mode 5 (normally F lydian/major and he says "de consonancia")
Clef:G tuning implied
Mode: F major
G standard: F major
Modern guitar: D major capo 3
Perhaps by "consonancia" he means up till now he has been transposing modes to different pitch levels relative to the instrument tuning, however, THIS ONE is in the correct conceptual "key"?? I don't know really but would make sense (and gives credence to "G standard" as a concept even if the pitch was not G).
Mode 6 "sobre fa ut mi re" (normally F lydian/major with a theme used like a fugue subject transposed at the 5th on scale degrees 1,5,7,6 and 4,1,3,2).
Clef: D tuning implied (very low)
Mode: F major
G standard: Bb major, a 4th UP due to implied tuning down a 4th.
Modern Guitar: G major tuned down a whole step (!)
Mode 7 "sobre ut re mi fa mi" (normally G mixo/Major, but here more like C major, based on a theme in C using 5,6,7,1,7 and 1,2,3,4,3...you can see why "G Mixolydian" is a concept here melodically.
Clef:A tuning implied
Mode: C major (G Mixolydian)
G standard: Bb major, a whole step flat
Modern guitar: G major capo 5
Mode 8 (G mixolydian/Major)
Clef: G tuning implied
Mode: G mixo/major
G standard: G mixo major
Modern Guitar: E mixo/Major capo 3. Most of this piece relates to A major and with internal tuning relates extremely closely to our flamenco Rondeña, even some themes overlap with Montoya's famous creation.
So what does it all mean? The stats above show only 2 of 8 modes from the perspective of "G standard" are in the correct conceptual "key", the first mode being transposed even if the implied tuning is standard. We have to conclude either 1.tuning variability, 2. different instruments in his collection (by clef you can see which are which implied), 3. or simply you can do some wild transpositions with your lute/vihuela which ever it is.
Maybe it is all 3 of the above, who knows. As per the modern guitar perspective, half of ALL the modes are in the same conceptual "key" of Em/Gmaj/B phrygian. The same key as your girl in the above video is using. It seems to be the predominant tonality....not unlike a modern guitar. Mode 2 is the unique one that matches a modern guitar literally and mode 6 on a guitar tuned flat. Rondeña (mode 8) and D phrygian (por abajo mode 4) are the "exotic" guitar keys if you want, but certainly used in flamenco guitar traditions. Nuñez even has a Soleá in D tuned via Rondeña that would match up with this mode 4.
For me it is a stretch to believe that those Renaissance guys were mentally transposing into those weird keys like F minor, F phrygian, and Bb major, and the modern guitar perspective makes the whole system pretty clear and simple, if "exotic" in its relationship to flamenco guitar vs baroque and romantic guitar.
EDIT: for reference to the original Vacas piece we discussed, he says "primero tono" which means conceptually D dorian, his clef indications infer an A tuned instrument (whole step up), which means a standard G tuned vihuela is transposing the song a whole step down (C dorian) and modern guitar would be in A dorian/minor capo 3 (or like Segovia with no capo). Maza transported/adapted it as if the A tuning ie the clefs are literal, not conceptual.
|
|
|
|
