Counting a solea as a bulerai

Counting a solea as a bulerai (Full Version)

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metalhead -> Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 25 2025 20:22:57)
Started learning this yerai cortes solea: https://youtu.be/wmQlxHyTj6s?si=9-_ET4NKjJvvvk-5&t=40 the part from 0:41 - 1:56 seems to be played at bulerias tempo with eighth notes (I'm guessing 190 - 200 bpm). What do you think? If from 0:41 you count it like a solea with 16th notes, then the part from 1:49 does not make sense since it's clearly played like a blueria : 12-3-6-8-10. Am I right?

orsonw -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 25 2025 20:38:34)
This is jaleos, not solea. Jaleo is from Extremadura it's similar to bulerias but with a different soniquete.

metalhead -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 25 2025 20:50:39)
OH MY GOD. HOW DID I NOT LOOK AT THE TITLE BEFORE? All this while I thought it was a solea? What is Jaleos btw? How do you count it?

orsonw -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 25 2025 21:13:15)
It's like buleria but has a different soniquete, often a bit slower with swing. La Marelu from Extremadura. One could argue Paco's toque is leaning too Jerezano. Remedios Amaya's family is from Extremadura Miguel Vargas from Extremadura probably one of the best tocaores for soniquete por jaleos.

Ricardo -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 26 2025 23:57:34)
as I have been saying this guy does weird stuff on purpose...just look at the palmero's faces. It's taking the normal thing and going off the rails then back in. Technically Jaleo is the basis of the very slow soleá escobillas, where you can have a double time feel internally by the subdivisions of a very slow tempo 12 count (2 compases of buleria=1 of solea lento). Since you don't really even know Jaleo yet, I recommend learning normal traditional material first before messing around with his material.

metalhead -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 27 2025 12:51:37)
what weirdness are you talking about? From 0:56 to 1:58 it's played as it as like a buleria slowed down. Syncopation is nothing crazy, quite intuitive actually. There's no elasticity either. When I had first seen the video at first glance and looked at the palmeros faces; even I was thinking like this one is gonna be a difficult piece to tackle. However after counting, I don't think there's anything difficult about the rhythm.

mark indigo -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 27 2025 21:54:37)
quote: Counting a solea as a bulerai you nailed it with the title. It's not a normal bulerias. It's Yerai, so it's a "bulerai" [:D]

JasonM -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 28 2025 0:50:02)
Ummm hmm. Good luck! Maybe this will help?lol https://youtu.be/LBqztWkpf7M?si=cq4m9mshNTV0jn2K

metalhead -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 28 2025 8:16:26)
he happens to count it in 1,2,3. I counted it like a buleria: 6-8-10 and I felt it was more intuitive that way. Atleast from 0:56 to 1:58. I'm yet to look at the other parts. Btw are you the same Jason Mcguire?

orsonw -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 28 2025 8:36:03)
quote: I counted it like a buleria: 6-8-10 This is the right kind of feel. A feeling of threes, kind of similar to Abandolados or even Verdiales. Heavy but somehow also silent on the 1 of the 1,2,3. But it is in 12. PS And as relates to the composing thread, I'm sure that Yerai got most of his ideas from baile. (And not just what Ricardo pointed to here- changing the value of the same pulse so 2 compases of buleria=1 of solea lento or 1 compas tientos=2 compas tangos.)

metalhead -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 28 2025 12:28:53)
there is no way you can get the right feel by counting it as 1,2,3. Contrarily, 6-8-10 makes it sound so much more intuitive. If you count it like 1-2-3, it feels 1-3-2. no not intuitive at all.

orsonw -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 28 2025 13:32:13)
quote: there is no way you can get the right feel by counting it as 1,2,3. quote: Maybe this will help?lol https://youtu.be/LBqztWkpf7M?si=cq4m9mshNTV0jn2K It's good practice to be able to feel the same pulse or rhythm in different ways, and not get hung up on the counting. After all different professional people can count the same thing differently and no one is 'right', if one gets stuck on the 'right' numbers it can be hard to discuss things e.g. with a dancer or singer. Or being able to feel buleria in 2s or 3s or 6s or 12s and easily feel and shift between them without counting. To accent, or not accent any beat in the cycle without breaking rhythmic flow. Or as spoken about already, being able to shift between 2 compases of buleria=1 of solea lento or 1 compas tientos=2 compas tangos.

metalhead -> [Deleted] (May 28 2025 21:06:05)
Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at May 28 2025 21:08:24

Stu -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 28 2025 21:37:33)
quote: Maybe this will help?lol https://youtu.be/LBqztWkpf7M?si=cq4m9mshNTV0jn2K Haha. Crazy dude. [:D] I've watched the original over and over. So this is a refreshing new version

JasonM -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 28 2025 21:58:19)
quote: he happens to count it in 1,2,3. I counted it like a buleria: 6-8-10 and I felt it was more intuitive that way. Atleast from 0:56 to 1:58. I'm yet to look at the other parts. Btw are you the same Jason Mcguire? The point I got from the 1,2,3 counting is more to show where the quarter notes or downbeats are in relation to all the syncopation. Nope I’m not him.I carried my user name over from the old flamencoteacher forum before I/we knew of McGuire.

mark indigo -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 29 2025 11:46:53)
quote: there is no way you can get the right feel by counting it as 1,2,3. you have obviously never heard Jerez bulerias begin "un, do, tre, vamanos..."[8D]

Ricardo -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 29 2025 14:10:33)
quote: what weirdness are you talking about? I have been over this several times. Rather than invent a brand new thing in compás he takes a fairly standard thing that is solidly ingrained in the hearts and minds of flamencos, then deliberately off sets it in unusual ways, then as that tension builds he fails to resolve it so that IF you don't simply ignore him, you will get lost in there. 2:50 for example is basic soleá but shifted early so the remate does not line up. That is a game he is playing, and it is not a brand new idea, it is just that when it was done in the past, it is used to build tension to give a more satisfying and unique resolution....which he does not give you. Even Jason is there laughing at certain spots. I am not saying it is not cool or whatever, I am just saying you should be working on the standard things first. I mean if you are not laughing like Jason there, and just think this is "normal" syncopation, then you don't get it at all. Jason is only counting to 3, but you could count to 12 instead...and in two tempos. In fact I could redo the video that way so clarify his thinking of the specific phrases. But, I am not going to. You should try that on your own.

metalhead -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 29 2025 19:54:01)
quote: you don't get it at all ok.

Brendan -> RE: Counting a solea as a bulerai (May 30 2025 9:43:29)
quote: if one gets stuck on the 'right' numbers it can be hard to discuss things e.g. with a dancer or singer. The voice of experience, there. And a master of understatement.

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