Is there something more frustrating

Is there something more frustrating (Full Version)

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metalhead -> Is there something more frustrating (Mar. 2 2025 13:08:14)
than learning to play something by ears ? Tell me

Erik van Goch -> RE: Is there something more frustrating (Mar. 2 2025 15:48:13)
Not realy but obviously you have to be in the mood and it helps if you have some understanding of the music involved, good equipment like a good headphone and the tools to slow down the music to half speed. The first 12 string solo I earplayed did cost me about 2 months because I realy had to reinvent how to play the guitar, deviding melodies between treble strings and octave strings the campanella way. My most challenging thing so far funny enough was an intro by Jimi Hendrix that didn't sound complex at all so when my younger brother asked me to earplay it for him I thought, no problem but that turned out to be a big mistake. After a wile I startet wondering if he dubbed it.. or maybe even recorded it in 3 steps (it never crossed my mind to fret with the thump of my left hand which I find impossible to do anyhow) and at the end I surrendered. Dispite my failure my brother himself masterd the Hendrix way of playing quite well having no problem to play that intro or to play tears in heaven the Hendrix way :-).

Ricardo -> RE: Is there something more frustrating (Mar. 2 2025 16:17:31)
quote: ORIGINAL: metalhead than learning to play something by ears ? Tell me Only one method is more frustrating. Learning from notation. [:D]

metalhead -> RE: Is there something more frustrating (Mar. 2 2025 16:47:43)
Do you have any advice on how to get better? I just slow down the video and try to do guess work until each note matches . Two main problems I however face is guessing the chords played with rasgueados, and notes that are played simultaneously. I can guess one of the note but the other played simultaneously, I cant.

Erik van Goch -> RE: Is there something more frustrating (Mar. 2 2025 17:30:46)
Chords and notes being played simultaneously can be a chalange but patience and tuning ones ear on the notes you haven't catched yet might help. Guessing can be a help (and than check if you can actualy spot it for real). My father and I always used an old tape recorder, playing it back at half speed. That allows us to cut off the sound instandly. So if you cut it off just after the note of your focus is played and just before that other note is played that might limit distraction. Likewise if you crasp the next note in a similar way you can progress step by step. To me the most difficult parts are melodies were the same bloody notes pop up in repeated sequences that partly overleap and the occasional situation were notes are not realy played but the result of harmonics resonating. Just remember I failed to catch that famous (open strings?) openingschord of the Beatles (no idea if it's 1 guitar or not).

Arash -> RE: Is there something more frustrating (Mar. 2 2025 17:35:39)
I'm confused. I thought with "by ears", you meant audio only, no video. Because a clear video/audio combo is actually a good way to work with, if you can see the hands, chords and everything.

Erik van Goch -> RE: Is there something more frustrating (Mar. 2 2025 18:47:25)
Video most definitly helps but lacking a computer and good software I'm limited in cutting it into small digestable bits and pieces. Some parts remain verry difficult to grasp. Various times in my life earplaying happened just out of memory, either conscious or subconscious. The famous Tomatito falseta Ricardo used to show how to learn a falseta I actualy learned by watching some of my classmates play it a couple of times. Had no clue were to find it so I reconstructed it. When years later I got hold of the original (enquentro video?) the only difference was that I replaced one 5 note phrase for other one that was at least equal if not beter. Tomatito used notes that technically were convinient (kind of goast/trick notes that in the brain will translate to the ones one would have expected to hear, which were the ones I played :-). Vicente used some of these trick notes in his youth as well (playing open strings rather then holding the grip so one can leave earlyer while the mind doesn't accept the trick notes but automatically translates them into the ones one would have expectet to hear). Various times falsetas I thought I composed myself turned out to be knicked, almost note by note with some differences for worse or better. I used to include a self composed falseta in the mineras of ciroco and was verry proud one couldn't hear were Paco ended and I started. But as it turned out both were actualy Paco's :-). I knew a small part was inspired by a soleares phrase of Paco but when a couple of years later I surged Castro Marín for additional material it turned out I stole my falseta from that record almost note by note after hearing it only once years before (never liked that record). So notes can stick in your mind and pop up years later (even after hearing it just once) without being aware of it. I once created a melodic remate for Bulerias that turned out to be an exact replica of the one played by Moraito which I intended to earplay one day for many years :-). The funny thing is I actualy had to cut a couple of notes to make it fit after which it matched Moraito note by note. It's verry hard to compose without being influenced by (stealing from) the ones you love. A composer once joked, the trick is to remember all one hears while forgetting that/where you did hear it.

metalhead -> RE: Is there something more frustrating (Mar. 2 2025 19:31:54)
Also, I've been getting in touch with a few Guitarists here in India and from what I see the one way to make a living as a professional guitarist here is play as an accompaniment to bollywood singers or arrange for bolly songs. Market for instrumental guitar is almost nil. As for teaching , it looks like most students here like to learn theory to compose bolly style songs which is a problem for me. I don't know theory and I despise it. All of my hardwork looks wasted

Ricardo -> RE: Is there something more frustrating (Mar. 2 2025 19:36:25)
quote: ORIGINAL: metalhead Do you have any advice on how to get better? I just slow down the video and try to do guess work until each note matches . Two main problems I however face is guessing the chords played with rasgueados, and notes that are played simultaneously. I can guess one of the note but the other played simultaneously, I cant. You are speaking generally, but there are only specifics. Anything I struggled with in the past, I later learned were traditional known devices, that had I been brought up in Spain with a Maestro, I would have learned the fundamentals first and not wasted time “figuring out” the fingering, timing, and such. The chords that seem most exotic are often basic “grips” used for accompanying cante. I mean that is one example I talked about in Guajiras de Lucia I think. Like “how did paco invent these shapes for this falseta???”, well, he didn’t. They are standard. And on it goes. I tried to point out in some of those tutorials some “modern” ideas go back to some traditional baseline. More recently I am noticing standard “grips” in the freaking vihuela from 1550’s. [:D] The good news is that if you DO get some modern stuff correct as per a good video or whatever, then you have already reverse engineered the thing. There are lots of free online video sources by this point that assuming the person sharing actually is doing it correctly, it should get easier as you learn.

Stu -> RE: Is there something more frustrating (Mar. 2 2025 20:54:22)
u could use something like transcribe. It obviously has slow down features but also some other cool stuff like 'note guesses' and markers to focus on small sections more easily. I find this kind of stuff the complete opposite of frustrating. I love it. Sure there are odd sections where I get frustrated... but just takes a few more listens and tries than the easier bits. Transcribe is essential when I'm trying to figure out a falseta. It's great fun.

silddx -> RE: Is there something more frustrating (Mar. 2 2025 22:04:44)
quote: I don't know theory and I despise it. I was the same, and found out recently that's why I'm a shyte musician. When I started to learn a little theory during 2020 it made me wish I'd done it 40 years ago.

Ricardo -> RE: Is there something more frustrating (Mar. 3 2025 16:08:46)
quote: it looks like most students here like to learn theory to compose bolly style songs which is a problem for me. I don't know theory and I despise it. All of my hardwork looks wasted Despite your talent, you are very nihilistic. I had a friend like that who refused decent opportunities that came along, including the ones I was providing him. Anyway, North and South Indians never worked together due to cultural differences, of course, and completely different “theory” or musical systems at work. As far as I know, John Mclaughlin bridged that gap between Shankar and Zakir Hussain, well, everybody had to learn a little of the other guys music system. Theory for whatever discipline is really just understanding concepts and terminology, it is not as important as actually EXECUTING musical ideas correctly. Most disciplines require, to some degree, a teacher or model to follow, and other individuals to correct what you are doing wrong.

Stu -> RE: Is there something more frustrating (Mar. 4 2025 10:46:54)
quote: I don't know theory and I despise it strong words bro![:o]

mecmachin -> RE: Is there something more frustrating (Mar. 4 2025 12:48:35)
why not trying to melt with indian traditonal? find you a tabla player interested in flamenco...that would be great mecmachin

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