Which crack is acceptable

Which crack is acceptable (Full Version)

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hxwhf72752003 -> Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 18 2025 14:53:32)
Hi, my friends here. I want to know why there is a crack in that place near the saddle. Is that bad? If you must buy one which one is acceptable. Thanks![:)]

Ricardo -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 18 2025 15:09:45)
The first looks like the finish has chipped off, so very superficial. The other with the crack is ok if it has been glued and cleated. If not, then you must get it fixed or it will extend across the top there.

Echi -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 18 2025 15:15:14)
I don’t see cracks close to the saddle. Can you point it out ? One of the 2 pictures seems a small crack to the binding at the back, probably due to a bump there, but it ‘s not clear either the crack follows into the cypress or not. It doesn’t look like. .

RobF -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 18 2025 15:20:08)
To reiterate a question posed in a previous thread...why buy problems? If you must... The crack by the bridge is likely no big deal but it does need attention from a repair person. Things like this really can't be properly assessed remotely. The guitar must be inspected in hand and things like the bracing pattern, climate, etc have to be taken into account. Personally I think I'm going to stop responding to requests like this. I always end up suggesting the instrument be inspected by a qualified tech, at any rate. The second edge crack is due to blunt force trauma. Of the two it's the less concerning. But, again, it needs to be inspected in hand by a qualified tech. Yes, the crack can be repaired and cleated, but the location and extent of it has to be taken into account. It's sometimes not so easy to repair lower bout issues like that if they're as far away from the soundhole as can get. The repair requires being able to touch and see the problem from the inside. The more difficult that is, the more difficult the repair. I realize you're looking for a travel guitar and also that you are an accomplished guitarist. But maybe the money would be better spent on a less "top-end" instrument in perfect shape rather than a compromised one? At some point you'll want to sell it and repairs do affect value. Plus the cost of repair should be considered as part of the purchase price (maybe not so cheap, after all?). Also, I've seen some affordable factory made instruments that only needed some setup attention to end up punching way above their pay grade in being solid, good performing instruments. For travel, couldn't this be an avenue to consider?

hxwhf72752003 -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 18 2025 15:31:23)
It is on the top wood near the saddle, about 1cm away from the saddle.

RobF -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 18 2025 15:43:38)
quote: I don’t see cracks close to the saddle. Can you point it out ? The one I'm looking at is about 3mm away from the treble end of the bridge and runs with the grain from the golpeador to about an inch past the bridge towards the tail. Maybe there's another near the saddle that's less apparent.

hxwhf72752003 -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 18 2025 16:14:25)
Thanks for your advice. Actually, my friend asked me to buy one. But I still want to wait.[:D]

hxwhf72752003 -> [Deleted] (Feb. 18 2025 16:15:30)
Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 18 2025 16:21:12

hxwhf72752003 -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 18 2025 16:18:23)
You are right. It's about 3mm.

yourwhathurts69 -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 18 2025 17:14:58)
The one on the side next to the binding looks like it's just a crack in the finish because it crosses the binding/purfling and extends slightly onto the sound board; a crack in the wood would not do that, but a crack in the finish would. The other crack next to the bridge looks like it's in the wood and should be addressed and previously mentioned in other comments. As for buying the guitar, personally, I would stick with the Jesus de Jimenez.

Echi -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 18 2025 18:18:44)
Seen it. It looks like a crack in the wood to me too. Probably already fixed. I don't think this affects the tone in any regard but when you have a repair on the top, the guitar looses some value on the 2nd hand market and therefore the price has to reflect it.

hxwhf72752003 -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 18 2025 18:43:17)
It's fine to keep using the old guitar, but I'm looking for a new guitar to use in another country. It seems that I am stuck in a vicious cycle of selling my old guitar and buying a new one.[:D][:D][:D]

hxwhf72752003 -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 18 2025 18:46:58)
My friend told me that the crack is on an awkward place. It will be subjected to force when you do golpe. And he told me that it will be worse because of conde’s structure.

Ricardo -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 18 2025 19:39:20)
If it was already properly glued and cleated, it is stronger than the normal wood, whose grain lines are potential problems if the wood dries out.

orsonw -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 19 2025 9:41:45)
quote: My friend told me that the crack is on an awkward place. It will be subjected to force when you do golpe I bought this Pena Vargas unseen knowing it had a repair of a major crack in the soundboard bass side lower bout. I didn't know about the even more heavily repaired crack which is exactly in the golpe strike area. I discovered this when I got it- you can see four hefty cleats there! However this guitar sounds and plays amazing, I much prefer it to the other 4 Pena Vargas I've played. It's one of my favourite guitars that I've ever played. Due to the repairs it was for sale at a very reduced price. Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

orsonw -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 19 2025 9:54:47)
I also have a Conde with a repaired crack in the soundboard, I've owned and played it for years. The repair has never been a problem and the guitar sounds great. At one point I owned Tomatito's 1987 Conde, I got it via Solera. That had a large repaired crack in the soundboard but was still a great guitar (see photo). It seems sometimes a repair may only change the value (unless it was once Tomatito's!)? I am curious with all the care and skill luthiers take with bracing; a load of extra cleats must make a difference? In the case of the Pena Vargas the response and sound is better than 4 new Pena Vargas I've played. Maybe this particular one was always very good, or maybe this was the ultimate 'breaking in'! The guitar has clearly been played a lot and the crack is under where the golpe would strike. I seem to remember reading a myth that Paco de Lucerna would deliberately break a new guitar and have it repaired. Luthiers put all their art and skill into building guitars and then put them out in the world. I can't imagine what it's like to then have to sit by and watch guitarists either physically abuse their work, or make ignorant comments about guitars and luthiery on the internet. Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Manitas de Lata -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 19 2025 10:34:00)
if you bought the one that i heard (used and repaired in that area), it sounds very good. It was 1k something if i recall , or less maybe. I had considered it. i think the owner was a knowed guy

hxwhf72752003 -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 19 2025 12:31:15)
Wow! The examples you providing really reassure me. I will ask my friend to try the guitar I mentioned before and hope they are good.[:)]

Echi -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 19 2025 14:33:44)
As a matter of facts the majority of my guitars got one crack here or there at a certain stage. I agree a properly repaired crack in most cases doesn’t affect the tone. It’s good to know it affects the value though. Things very important to consider are a refinished top or neck problems.

orsonw -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 19 2025 14:49:19)
quote: I agree a properly repaired crack in most cases doesn’t affect the tone. It’s good to know it affects the value though. It seems in most cases that the guitar is not actually diminished as an instrument? It only affects the value because most guitar buyers are ignorant and it scares them. I got lucky with that Pena Vargas being offered at such a reduced price. Looking at the market it doesn't usually affect price that much.

Echi -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 19 2025 15:46:38)
I agree to this as a general statement but with certain caveats. While these kind of repairs are generally not relevant tonewise, I have also seen bad repair jobs which I assume brought some consequences. At times also good repair jobs may leave the area weaker than before the damage. I mean, someone with a certain expertise should be able to discern what is relevant and what is not but an average buyer is reasonably scared by a repaired crack. In this sense I believe the price of a repaired guitar should reflect the loss of value while a musician shouldn’t care too much about it. I for one don’t care. I couldn’t afford a really excellent Ramirez if it wasn’t for the repaired sides and a fantastic ‘63 Conde for a cracked top. Culturally speaking a guitar should be considered as a tool for life which you fix and adjust at times.

Ricardo -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 19 2025 15:48:32)
Dang, you owned that Tomatito guitar? This one? http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=235490&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=tomatito%2Cfret&tmode=&smode=&s=#235550 I guess we discussed that someone was compensating these old condes by moving the frets to flatten the pitch, and that was what Fooled me into thinking it was a different guitar.

orsonw -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 19 2025 17:07:14)
quote: Dang, you owned that Tomatito guitar? This one? Yes, I owned it for a couple of years. It was a very good guitar, one of the best Condes I've owned. But due to it's value I didn't like taking it out of the house, so didn't use it that much. I realised I was keeping it like a museum piece, I'm not a collector so I sold it. Tomatito lent it to Antonio Moya for this episode of Puro y Jondo.

hxwhf72752003 -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 19 2025 18:23:57)
I remember that an old Faustino Conde 1972 was sold in Japan several days ago. There are five cracks on the side wood. I thought the guitar's condition is so bad and I didn't ask for information.[:D]

orsonw -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Feb. 19 2025 18:57:35)
quote: I guess we discussed that someone was compensating these old condes by moving the frets to flatten the pitch, and that was what Fooled me into thinking it was a different guitar. I think you were right about it being a different guitar based on the 19th fret. Anyway that is what I had always assumed to be the case. Tomatito has a large guitar collection so it's not surprising that he would have two such similar Condes. I think these videos show Jose del Tomate and Tomatito playing the Camaron guitar with the same 19th fret. With Camaron 1989 Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

orsonw -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Mar. 17 2025 15:14:49)
quote: I seem to remember reading a myth that Paco de Lucerna would deliberately break a new guitar and have it repaired. In this video Marshall Brune repairs a soundboard that cracked due to humidity change. At 11:16 he says "you might actually notice that it sounds better than it did previously because the crack has now identified the weak spot of the wood and it is now even more together."

hxwhf72752003 -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Mar. 17 2025 15:49:02)
That does sounds reasonable. I used to have a classical guitar, and it was broken. I didn't catch it well when I got out of the car. My dad fixed it with some glue. The sound was more open.

Ricardo -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Mar. 17 2025 17:27:52)
I am scared of guitars that are "pristine". I refuse to play them. Only guitars with repaired cracks.[:D]

rombsix -> RE: Which crack is acceptable (Mar. 18 2025 12:42:16)
quote: I am scared of guitars that are "pristine". I refuse to play them. Only guitars with repaired cracks. [:D][8D]

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