RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Full Version)

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estebanana -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 7 2025 5:34:34)

I knew about it

https://youtu.be/8Jm4LoOaAWI?feature=shared




Ricardo -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 7 2025 16:19:12)

quote:

My philosophical trajectory is into the discourse of ethics of occupation and why we are led to an exodus of earth. Your post enables me to make the next argument: If we can’t save our own biodiversity by action on our own planet, what ethically justifies us reaching into space to repeat the same mistakes on Mars?


Ok, I get it now. You want to follow the "prime directive" of Star Trek. I should have known with tocaor Spock there LOL! Well, yes extinction is natural, but we now have the tools of genetics such that it does not have to be that way in the long term. And these tools evolved "naturally" so from my perspective it seems to be "the way of the universe" like it or not. Expansion, preservation, colonization. Of course there will have to be "sanctuaries" out there where we leave it all alone and only observe. But the tools and understanding seem to have a clear direction. Even we could engineer the "non-aggressive, non-invasive" versions of humanity to do the "good" work. It is already beginning. I suspect cyborgs to do most of the future colonization, programed not to repeat the mistakes of the past. But it has to start somewhere, or it never will. I don't accept that humanity will just consume here, try to fix the "environment" for ourselves and the other creatures that just so happen to thrive today, and go extinct. We now know that long before sun swells and consumes the inner planets, that life on Earth will not be sustainable. So we can both colonize some rocky worlds, AND consider what needs to be to done for long term sustainability and avoidance of disruption of environments out there. The time is now to start looking. Fixing the Earth is good to...for the "short" term.




Piwin -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 7 2025 17:02:36)

Right. Because when you're worried about repeating the mistakes of the past, the thing to do is to rebrand the moronic ideas of 19th century British eugenists and cross your fingers that this time around it'll work out great. Genius!




Ricardo -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 7 2025 17:39:49)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

Right. Because when you're worried about repeating the mistakes of the past, the thing to do is to rebrand the moronic ideas of 19th century British eugenists and cross your fingers that this time around it'll work out great. Genius!


Who is doing that regarding space colonization? I am talking about genetically altered human-cyborgs that can work better in non-terrestrial environments. They can be any color you want![:D]. Genetics allows us to circumvent Darwin, both natural and artificial selection, etc. Estebanan said "we can't transport the biodiversity to Mars". Of course we could, but it would die "as is". It can be enhanced to thrive in other environments. But there is no terraforming...yet. It takes time.




Mark2 -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 7 2025 18:55:28)

In that case I'm sure they will have incredible picado. I guess I was born too soon. Maybe if I'm reincarnated, with my new skills I'll do a remake of Gerardo's record and call it "Flamencos in Space"

I hope spotify will be gone by then. Maybe they'll be able to just wirelessly transmit music to your brain, for a small monthly fee of course.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo



I am talking about genetically altered human-cyborgs that can work better in non-terrestrial environments.




RobF -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 7 2025 22:33:29)

All this talk about human-cyborgs reminds me of the movie Robo Cop, which had this insane movie within a movie going on in the background chatter on the TVs, radios, and billboards. Kind of reminds me of recent times. The world has gone totally frikken' weirdo, it seems, although on the other hand it's just business as usual when taking the long view.

The Tower of Babel parable comes to mind and still seems relevant today. Humanity has understood its shortcomings and limitations for a very long time.




estebanana -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 8 2025 4:01:21)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

Right. Because when you're worried about repeating the mistakes of the past, the thing to do is to rebrand the moronic ideas of 19th century British eugenists and cross your fingers that this time around it'll work out great. Genius!


Who is doing that regarding space colonization? I am talking about genetically altered human-cyborgs that can work better in non-terrestrial environments. They can be any color you want![:D]. Genetics allows us to circumvent Darwin, both natural and artificial selection, etc. Estebanan said "we can't transport the biodiversity to Mars". Of course we could, but it would die "as is". It can be enhanced to thrive in other environments. But there is no terraforming...yet. It takes time.



Oh so you didn’t heed the warnings of Battle Star Galactica? Cyborgs? More like death yielding Cylons.




estebanana -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 8 2025 5:51:24)

Uncle Carl -

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFupogkyNeq/?igsh=YWYyM3NobjVxcjRy




Piwin -> [Deleted] (Mar. 8 2025 7:46:32)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 8 2025 8:43:20




Ricardo -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 8 2025 17:58:16)

quote:

Oh so you didn’t heed the warnings of Battle Star Galactica?


oops, I will now. By your command.




estebanana -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 9 2025 3:57:38)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

Oh so you didn’t heed the warnings of Battle Star Galactica?


oops, I will now. By your command.



Assumed you watched the reboot of Battlestar, if you didn’t lets drop it because I don’t want to feed you spoilers on a decent series. It’s a lot different vision and primary story line than The Expanse, but it has basis as an object lesson for our current moment. The basis for BG is similar to Blade Runner but with vastly longer story arch, but it’s about the threshold of where human and robotics intercept each other and what a possible outcome is.


BG aired between like 2003 and 2006 or something like that I can’t remember, maybe later, but it’s a serious SciFi production worth checking out if that genre interests you. I won’t make references from it, but I’ll say that as a concept or point of departure in the discourse about the human/machine interaction and what does consciousness mean it’s a piece of SciFi that asks good questions and poses thoughtful scenarios to work them out. It’s got a metaphorical quirk that carries over from the original series BG from the 1970’s and it’s kind of needed but is slightly annoying, although you can ignore it and it doesn’t interfere.




Ricardo -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 9 2025 20:37:00)

of course I have seen those. An extension (or rip off?) of Asimov IMO. And yes I realize the issue is glaringly ignored by Expanse writers (ironic considering their worship of Alien, which had the essential, Mother, Ash, and Bishop characters that Cameron tied in to Blade Runner after all). Recently the "Raised by Wolves" unfinished series by Riddley Scott again, explored an entire new take on the story. A bummer it cancelled.

Anyway, I was thinking we will have learned these lessons by now (or the time space fairing androids are needed). To be honest, it is really gonna be about "sexbots", more than anything, humans falling in love with them, rather than the "android slave revolt". IMO.




estebanana -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 10 2025 2:34:46)

Only because Canadians are mentioned:





estebanana -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 10 2025 3:02:34)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

of course I have seen those. An extension (or rip off?) of Asimov IMO. And yes I realize the issue is glaringly ignored by Expanse writers (ironic considering their worship of Alien, which had the essential, Mother, Ash, and Bishop characters that Cameron tied in to Blade Runner after all). Recently the "Raised by Wolves" unfinished series by Riddley Scott again, explored an entire new take on the story. A bummer it cancelled.

Anyway, I was thinking we will have learned these lessons by now (or the time space fairing androids are needed). To be honest, it is really gonna be about "sexbots", more than anything, humans falling in love with them, rather than the "android slave revolt". IMO.



Think these SciFi series’ are extensions of Asimov rather than rip-offs. There are so many things Mr A didn’t cover.

As for the Expanse, they standardized polyamory at least in Belter society, I think polyamory becomes central to survival and family sustainability. Multiple parental units cover child care while other parents are out shipping freight.

The sexbot is going to blow up, no pun intended, with religious conservatives. Christian and Muslim theologians heads will explode because the transformation of humanity into hybrid beings will de emphasize patriarchal order and they will be against that. Women have adapted to sex toys better than men, and in fact men are threatened by sex toys because it de centralizes them in human sexuality. So the whole sex in space thing is a feminist project that undermines religious authority. It’s a direct counter narrative to things like the patriarchally oriented dystopias of the social science fiction like The Hand Maids Tale.

I think it’s too soon to assume we’re past all this stuff and think it’s going to be a long time before Islam and Christianity let go of people’s minds so we’re clear to be atheists free and open. The religious right, in the U.S. at least, is going to take a stab at banning contraception and elective surgeries that render men impotent. Contraception is a massive threat to male dominance, which is what religious conservativism is wholeheartedly invested in preserving and expanding. The religious freakazoids in particular in Islam and Christianity view women ( at the core of their organization of social order) as walking sperm recepticals. They view women’s bodies as vessels under their religious overview, which is to regulate the female body.

As far as I know there has not been a space SciFi show that has dealt with women’s emancipation from religious control, and this is important because power to fund and maintain space ventures will need to come partially from government, not exclusively the private sector. This is interesting because it sets up conflict between the power of the private and public, with women in the middle. See because transforming the male body is a forgone conclusion, but transforming the female body lets in motion a kind of bodily autonomy that the theological community will push back against




RobF -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 10 2025 3:20:23)

quote:

Only because Canadians are mentioned:


Ironically (or maybe not), the video you posted isn't viewable in Canada. [:(]




estebanana -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 10 2025 12:20:04)

If it’s viewable in Japan it’s probably available to Canada.

Well that sucks, Canadians have to use a special pay to view channel like Apple TV

Japan used to have a geo block on SNL but I assumed it changed for all regions.




RobF -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 10 2025 13:23:31)

Yeah, it's a geo-block.

The producers are probably jealous because all the best comedians they've ever had come from Canada and they don't want us to know how funny we are. Keeps the costs down.

Heck, even Lorne Michaels is Canadian. The bonehead...




Ricardo -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 10 2025 15:54:49)

quote:

As far as I know there has not been a space SciFi show that has dealt with women’s emancipation from religious control,


I guess you missed Raised by Wolves?





estebanana -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 11 2025 3:46:57)

I’m too sinti to afford cable in this god forsaken country

Looks like video game 🎮 does it have adult script writers or is it straight out of Big Balls’ juvenile mind? 😂




estebanana -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 11 2025 3:51:38)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobF

Yeah, it's a geo-block.

The producers are probably jealous because all the best comedians they've ever had come from Canada and they don't want us to know how funny we are. Keeps the costs down.

Heck, even Lorne Michaels is Canadian. The bonehead...



Well Mike Myers modeled the Dr. Evil character on Lorne ….




Ricardo -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Mar. 13 2025 14:18:43)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I’m too sinti to afford cable in this god forsaken country

Looks like video game 🎮 does it have adult script writers or is it straight out of Big Balls’ juvenile mind? 😂


You can probably find a free source to it, or purchase a DVD. Riddly Scott, legit script as it can get (if you consider his good vs bad work, this is one of the "good ones", like Alien/Blade Runner in quality, less like prometheus and Alien sequels). The fans were very upset about its cancellation, but for what was presented I was very much into it. I chose that clip as the focus was on the female android, but the story focuses on the use of Religion to politically control humanity motivated by some potentially "dark" agenda. Lots of interesting symbolizm and sci-fi mystery kept it intriguing. Glimpses that the malevolent manipulation of peoples belief systems, gender roles, losing control of technology, historical tragedy, etc., were going to be answered in coming seasons leaves us wanting more, but as it stands it is good stuff. Dystopian futuristic, with hints of Ancient Alien influence or agenda (it is vague) made it good sci fi.




Ricardo -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Apr. 2 2025 14:16:05)

I normally get my science news filtered through this lady who is super skeptical and dry, being a German physicist ([:D]), with great nerd humor and reality checks at the ready. The Ariel Eckblaw interview about near future space colonization was as equally surprising to me as it NOW is to her (some of the thing she is discussing was in the interview), so just pointing out that if THIS lady is surprised, nobody should feel bad about being in the dark about the seriousness of this space exploration thing.





estebanana -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Apr. 2 2025 17:36:40)

This stuff doesn’t surprise me, this idea of self assembling space habitats has already been done and the robotics to assemble myriads of products by robotics is a reality now.

Modular building components for space
Architecture has been around for a while. Growing biologics as structures is also an idea that’s been in circulation. ( and heavily in sci-fi, my favorite being Vorlon biotech in the series Babylon 5 )

Probably we’ll have to say goodbye to DARPA because Elon is jealous of how innovative and esoteric its inquiries are. And all this stuff is still riffing off of Freeman Dyson and Arthur C. Clarke.

I calculate that her surprise is somewhat disengenous and she’s known about this. Although I like her engagement.

The Arthur C. Clarke novel ‘Rendevous with Rama’ is about self constructing space fairing
Machines.




Ricardo -> RE: Mars, do we really need to go there? (Apr. 3 2025 11:54:04)

Sci fi inspired of course....but that is the surprising part, how quick this stuff is approaching and a trip to Mars by humans is no joke. A few years ago Musk explained the trip time with his rockets would be 6 months and that is too long of exposure time. He claimed the "Raptor" engine was going to cut that down to 3 months, by approximately this time now. So this new tech below might get the job done instead:





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