Cypress (Full Version)

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Message

Mischa -> Cypress (Nov. 9 2024 9:34:23)

Dear fellows,

What about cypress backs.
Recently I bought some cypress backs and they are not totally quartersawn, only about 15 cm and then the lines go diagonal.
What is acceptable and do the backs crack when they are partly diagonal?

I read somewhere that there is about 10% diagonal acceptable but if the trees are not wide, it's not possible to get a fully quartersawn planks out of it either.

With other words, is it normal and acceptable or not?
Kinds regards,
Mischa



estebanana -> RE: Cypress (Nov. 10 2024 2:49:00)

Glue one set together with the 15 cm edges meeting each other, then draw your plantilla on the joined halves. You will then have 30 cm of vertical grain in the center of the back. The upper and middle bouts will be almost all vertical grain, this is fine. See how much is off vertical on the outer edges of the back, there’s probably not much left off vertical.

And at that point on the back it’s not bad to have some off quarter wood, you can see many very good guitars of cypress or rosewood where the outer edges of the lower bouts go off quarter, and sometimes even into flat grain.

You would want flat grain in the middle of the back really, but a little bit in the lower bouts on the outside doesn’t detract from strength.

Here’s a trick to help the situation, use a wide center strip in the middle of the two panels to push the off quarter grain outside the perimeter of the outline of the guitar. This is a great way to show the artistic sense of your building by using a rosewood back strip or a cypress back strip and make a three panel back.



Mischa -> RE: Cypress (Nov. 10 2024 5:47:54)

Hello Stephen,

That is actually a smart tric there.
On my first guitar I had a rosewood worm problem in the middle line which I cut away and replaced with a cypress strip as there was not enough wood left to make a guitar. Its the same thing but didnt figure out this could help with the off sawn parts. 🤓😂
Thanks!

Does anyone know if cypress backs are usually partly off sawn? I ask this as when I buy a set, I dont need to expect fully quartersawn boards and being dissapointed because its normal.

I can imagine that the older bigger trees are gone these days and we need to accept not fully quartesawn cypress backs anymore right?

Best,
Mischa



RobF -> RE: Cypress (Nov. 10 2024 17:14:06)

Hi Mischa,

Buying wood online sight unseen is always a bit of a crap-shoot. It helps if the supplier is willing to send photos so there aren't as many surprises. That being said, off quarter to diagonal grain isn't that big a deal, it's really the flat sawn areas that you need to be concerned about. 15cm of 90 degree +/- 10 is pretty good wood. Really good, actually, when you think that that's going to yield close to 30cm when joined at the middle and the average lower bout is only a few inches wider than that. I think you did Ok with that purchase. More important is that the wood isn't green. As you get going it doesn't hurt to make purchases that can be stored for a number of years before use. You need space for that, however. Just try to avoid pieces that are flat sawn in the center. Those come from really small logs and shouldn't be sold at top grade prices.



gerundino63 -> RE: Cypress (Nov. 10 2024 20:30:53)

Hi Micha,

I would like to suggest you to contact John van Gool, he is an old Luthier living in Delft, close to you.
I know him for 30+ years, and he has a lot of wood, for a long time.
More wood than he possible could make guitars with I think.
He is very kind, and I would be surprised if he would not sell you some good wood and give you all the tips you need.
If you want some introduction, I would happy to give him a call.

https://www.lutherie-van-gool.nl/nederland/prod01.html

All the best,

Peter, living in Hoorn



estebanana -> RE: Cypress (Nov. 11 2024 0:49:24)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mischa

Hello Stephen,

That is actually a smart tric there.
On my first guitar I had a rosewood worm problem in the middle line which I cut away and replaced with a cypress strip as there was not enough wood left to make a guitar. Its the same thing but didnt figure out this could help with the off sawn parts. 🤓😂
Thanks!

Does anyone know if cypress backs are usually partly off sawn? I ask this as when I buy a set, I dont need to expect fully quartersawn boards and being dissapointed because its normal.

I can imagine that the older bigger trees are gone these days and we need to accept not fully quartesawn cypress backs anymore right?

Best,
Mischa



It sounds like you basically know what you’re doing.

In order to get a back that’s cut on vertical the tree has to be bigger than 20” in diameter, on a really straight tree that’s about the lower diameter limit. But on a tree that size there will be less near perfect vertical grain pieces than in a bigger tree.

All tree are different, it’s not always the amount of vertical grain that determines how good the back is, some vertical cut wood can be inferior to other wood with a fair amount of off vertical grain. You just have flex them side by side. In tops it’s much more important than backs to have perfect on quarter panels, but only about 10% of all wood cut for guitars is absolutely perfect.



Mischa -> RE: Cypress (Nov. 11 2024 14:23:25)

Hi Rob,
thanks for the encouraging message that the wood is fine.
The wood is not green and lovely, it rings like a bell so I have the feeling it is very good wood actually. A good idea to ask for the pictures ahead!

Kind regards
Mischa



Mischa -> RE: Cypress (Nov. 11 2024 14:26:57)

Hi Peter,

Good to know there are more Dutchies around here :-)
i have heard from him lately by a mutual friend, a flamenco player. It would be great to meet him, and you of course! Thanks very much for the suggestion and your offer

Best,
Mischa



Mischa -> RE: Cypress (Nov. 11 2024 14:39:14)

Thanks Stephen,

Those are not such wide trees so that makes sense. It's good to know it's more an exception to find perfect quartersawn cypress backs.

Kind regards,
Mischa



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