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Ricardo -> RE: Flamenco Puro (Dec. 14 2024 19:42:13)
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quote:
I didn't realize that was a Ricardo falsetto (the same one Paco plays on an early recording?).
No, but I heard some of the other phrases in Pepe Martinez bulerias too. In fact the dates were so close to Sabicas I had to wonder if Sabicas got it from Pepe?? That would be tricky to pin down. Pepe was super close to Ramon, so he and Sabicas have a very similar toque to my ear, as they both drew from his rep mainly.
quote:
Montoya was more lyrical than Ricardo. Also, Ricardo had a better sense of compás. Both expanded the range of guitar possibilities, using the entire fingerboard, but in different ways. Sabicas added clean technique and compás to a Montoya base, and - in a sense - Paco did the same with Ricardo's music. Diego del Gastor was a fan of Ricardo, but not Montoya (he allegedly said of Montoya "un gitano qua toca mu payo").
There is A LOT of nuance in there that closer inspection contradicts. First, Ramon had excellent compas IMO, it was not just the clean notes (high action guitars). In the cante accompaniment as well, or mainly. I teach falsetas of Ricardo at students request....gosh darn it I had to make decisions to pass bad compas ideas or repair the damage. 15 count buleria and such. For cante he let it breath more than Ramon and his generation (Gandulla and Borrull). Montoya et al were not afraid to break the compas in half for Serneta solea etc.
I feel it is Melchor and Ricardo together that influences very strongly the accompaniment. I mean, the elastic thing and keep 12 like religion (I did notice Ricardo break compas many times too so perhaps even this is not the case). Melchor is under emphasized IMO when we talk about soloists. Melchor had dynamics that were unique. When Paco de Lucia accompanied Mairena he did NOT say he was channelling niño Ricardo...it was MELCHOR that he wanted to emulate. anyway....
The irony statement people love is that Ricardo toque is "gypsy" and Montoya is "payo", and it is really silly imo. Ricardo is very sloppy, like you have to learn it, then figure out what he was TRYING to do. But at the same time he had these devices that are very technical and challenging. What I give Ricardo over all the others before him was the syncopation in the arpeggios. He is first to use subdivision to impose counter phrasing (3 against 4 and such) which is very intellectually sophisticated IMO. Maybe dance was an influence, but there are not clear recordings to study dance before Carmen Amaya when it was already like sophisticated drum rudiments going on with the feet. We only have guitar and Cante to infer things like that which must have evolved concurrently with the dance.
So Gastor certainly was into that syncopating thing he used in buleria that mezmorized the American visitors. But for him to put down Montoya vs Ricardo? I would have to dig into it a bit but years ago I noticed him using Montoya and Javier Molina quotes directly, and assumed that he must have had a record player just like Sabicas and Pepe Martinez.
I will try to dig up that Ricardo falseta that Sabicas stole....
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