Half-whole tone scale exercise (Full Version)

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Norman Paul Kliman -> Half-whole tone scale exercise (Aug. 26 2024 16:28:34)

As its name suggests, the half-whole tone scale alternates half steps and whole steps. It sounds very strange, almost alien, but jazz musicians (piano, sax, etc.) know how to make it sound musical, using it to link some of those strange chords they play (look online for tutorials). An interesting thing about this scale is that it has eight notes, unlike diatonic (major, minor, etc.) scales. Also, with the unvarying pattern, I think there are only two or three of these scales in all keys, as the rest would be the same notes, starting and stopping at different points. To my ears, it sounds like it could be used in flamenco, but I haven’t figured out how to do that yet. I worked out this little exercise about a year ago, and I play it to warm up my thumb.

Here's a link to the score:

http://canteytoque.es/halfwholeexc.png

And here's a video:
http://canteytoque.es/halfwholeexc.mp4



Ricardo -> RE: Half-whole tone scale exercise (Aug. 26 2024 17:35:36)

interesting. Well I have seen it used a bit in flamenco. The idea is that portions of the scale can work very well, where as avoiding a note or two is probably better.

Earliest example of a partial use of it is Montoya's Granaina conclusion. Over an ostinato bass F# and B the notes of the symmetric scale appear, E#F#G#AB. The implied notes missing are D# and C natural, that occur later. The implied scale in B is:
BC(D)D#E#F#G#A

The issue is the C natural appears when the ostinato changes to G-C. So that cancels the G#, so not a hardcore application of the scale, rather a harmonic idea to color the Phrygian cadence C-B.

Other partial uses are anything that sounds like M. De Falla. Such as when the E# appears in Taranta, etc. So applied to the above granaina case, the symmetric scale and the harmonic major have the same type of color application such that Harmonic major will NOT ever use the D natural (symmetric scale has 8 notes instead of 7, and this the main one to distinguish). PDL tends to use the Harmonic major in its entirety (I have a tutorial showing two falsetas that use it, Paco tutorial 4).

Modern player chicuelo runs a proper symmetric scale over his Rumba in Toque Levante, taught as the conclusion to the Taranto Baile structure in the Encuentro video. Other than that example I have not seen it used much.

Interms of Jazz and the intersection with flamenco usage. I want to say I conceive of the scale in one manner only. It is used over a dominant chord or Phrygian tonic chord, such that the chord is given both the flat 9, and the #6 or #13 in the voicing. It is this sound that invites the M. de Falla vibes as well. To run the scale I first envision the whole step ascent from the dominant 7th scale degree.

So in por medio I find G and run the scale (GABb going up or GF#E going down).
Arriba=D
F# taranta=E
G# minera=F#
C#=B
D#=C#

That covers all the guitaristic keys pretty much. Since it is symmetric you only need to find that one note relative to the key you are in.



Norman Paul Kliman -> RE: Half-whole tone scale exercise (Aug. 26 2024 21:04:49)

Montoya? Richard, what are you talking about?



Ricardo -> RE: Half-whole tone scale exercise (Aug. 27 2024 1:38:27)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norman Paul Kliman

Montoya? Richard, what are you talking about?


Ramon Montoya, solo Granaína on BAM records, the concluding falseta, bass notes F# and B, the melody is ABAG#F#E#F#G#A etc. the melody moves up to BCBA etc. The harmonic device is moving between B major and C major. However the melodic contour is spelling out the partial use of the 8 note symmetric. Specifically 6 of the 8, and one of the missing notes (D#) appears later in the falseta but is implied to not be a D natural. I Thought I was clear this was a partial use that overlaps with the Harmonic major scale which is commonly employed by flamenco players wishing to evoke the Manuel De Falla Amor brujo aire. Only one note differs ...however that note, D natural, is in fact commonly heard in these phrases at the end of the day, mixing both the Natural and sharp third of the tonic chord B major, as per typical melodic descending phrases in B Phrygian.



Ricardo -> RE: Half-whole tone scale exercise (Aug. 28 2024 13:55:31)

quote:

Montoya? Richard, what are you talking about?


to be clear. Montoya's Granaina phrase (minus the thumb ostinato)

-5-7-5-4----------4-5-7-5-4-etc...
-4---------7-6-7--------------
-4----------------------------------
-4-----------------------------------
-------------------------------------
--------------------------------------

a basic Phrygian descending melody in key of Granaina:

-5-------7--
-4-------4--
-4--7-5-4--
-4-------4--
-------------
-------------

Put both together to complete the scale picture in the position:

-7-5-4---------------------7--
-4------7-6-4------4------4--
-4-----------4-7-5-4------4--
-4-----------4------4-7-6-4--
--------------------------------
--------------------------------

That is how the full scale manifests in the said conclusion of his Granaina. I already explain it is not a deliberate hardcore use, such as in jazz where the scale is not deviated from. In flamenco we mix scales like this. I am saying Montoya is exploiting the upper structure of the scale on the B chord, and connecting it to the C major chord (G# becomes G natural, E would be natural, etc.)

Your original post seemed to pose the question "how does this 8 note scale work in flamenco", I am saying it has been demonstrated a little bit already.



Norman Paul Kliman -> RE: Half-whole tone scale exercise (Aug. 30 2024 17:58:43)

Too busy to respond until just now. If you say the notes are there, I believe you, but I don’t think Ramón’s falseta has anything to do with the whole-half tone scale, the nature of which is unsettling contrast: a succession of notes, most of them not being what the ear is expecting. Ramón’s idea sounds naturally musical, without the unexpected weirdness, so I think it’s a stretch to relate one to the other.

A more solid claim could also be made that the alternating bass (what you call ostinato) in Ramón’s falseta is an early example of the boom-chick country guitar style, and that would also be stretching things, IMO. The notes are there and they’re being used in the same way, with the same intention and results, but it must be considered coincidence due to the years and kilometers of difference.

Re-reading your post, it looks like you’re not actually claiming that Ramón’s falseta is an early example of the scale (are you?), which is how I interpreted it at first.

To tell you the truth, reading a response with an overload of technical details makes my eyes glaze over. I don’t mind admitting you’ve got a firmer grasp of music theory than I do, so what seems obvious to you may not be to me (or others).



Ricardo -> RE: Half-whole tone scale exercise (Aug. 30 2024 18:56:48)

Simply put, you said you had not yet figured out how the scale could work in Flamenco. I simply point out (in too much detail of course sorry) that just like ANY SCALE, there are sweet notes and “avoid notes” in musical context. The avoid notes can happen but need to not be dwelled upon (pass by them or get that ugly dissonance…unless you want that. But is it “flamenco”?), where as the sweet notes are functioning perfectly.

What Montoya did is take the sweet notes (5 out of 8) and exploit the heck out of them in that example over B major. Two more notes from the scale appear later in the falseta spelling 7 of 8 notes. The harmonic Major scale of De Falla shares those same sweet notes in flamenco context (7 of the 8 notes are in common). This is pretty much basic math.

A scale such as the one in your exercise can be discovered as a tool all over the neck, it is a physical symmetrical pattern. The issue is how to exploit the sweet notes of it, or use the bad ones for a nice tension that will resolve, etc. Only Chicuelo I know of is heard running the literal scale down in two octaves, and at high speed those avoid notes are not problematic.

Hope that clears it brother.



Norman Paul Kliman -> RE: Half-whole tone scale exercise (Aug. 30 2024 19:28:47)

Whatever you say, sonny.



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