Can you help me count a solea? (Full Version)

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metalhead -> Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 21 2024 21:25:06)

I don't ask for help unless I just can't figure it out for the life of me so here we go again:



1.) 2:14 he starts just before 12 (I'm sure about this)

2.) 2:24 he starts just before 12 again after the abanico on beat 11

3.) 2:33 he starts at beat 1 and plays all triplets before that golpe after the picado run ends at beat 11?

So here's the problem : it's missing one whole beat because by the current counting, the end result is him resolving at beat 11 @2 :42 which is obviously wrong. Which tells me I'm somehow counting wrong, small chance that he actually missed a beat but that's close to impossible. (I only say this because I counted millions of times all to the same result) The problem most likely I think lies in the 3rd point... If you're patient, then I would greatly appreciate it. It's also a fantastic (and quite difficult) solea so it would be good for you too


So that you don't spend your head scratching trying to figure out the part before, the piece itself starts at beat 12 @ 0:08 which is also the exact same phrasing at 1:56 (again you can count me on this )




Mark2 -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 21 2024 22:22:23)

I hear him start on 12 at 2:14 and 2:24
At 2:33 he resolves on beat 10 on the G#
He is also not out of compas at 2:42

Listen closely to the palmas. And slow it down if need be.




metalhead -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 22 2024 6:58:34)

Elaborate, I told you, I already counted a million times all to the same result. How's it he resolves on beat 11 @ 2:33? Are you sure about that? I think he resolved it on 11




Ricardo -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 22 2024 14:52:41)

quote:

3.) 2:33 he starts at beat 1 and plays all triplets before that golpe after the picado run ends at beat 11?


Absolutely not, move it all back one beat. He starts the triplets on 12 and plays through count 12 accenting 12, 3, 6, then golpe from above on 12. The next compás has the syncopated chords but ends on 10 as it should.

Here is a tip. Whenever there is a legit backing track, first play along with scratch rhythm, or count if you must, (both are ideal), so you get a sense for how the phrase lines up to the background. In this case your focus about the melody fooled your ear because you are connecting your inner clock to that backing like he has done already. This goes for all compressed recordings (the background is pushed back by loud frontline dynamics so you need to focus your ear on it).

quote:

Elaborate, I told you, I already counted a million times all to the same result. How's it he resolves on beat 11 @ 2:33? Are you sure about that? I think he resolved it on 11


No. The E inverted with G# is right on 10. A count back. I guess your ear is thrown by the syncopated rhythm at 2:24? The E arpegio that stops at 12th fret going up is stopping on count 10 (9e&ah10). Again, track 12,3, and 6 for those accents. Yes he does the thumb pick up notes before those accents each time.




metalhead -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 22 2024 15:12:44)

I figured out the issue. @ 2:24 I actually thought it was simply 8th notes simply because it felt like it. So I was going

ven - 12 - 1 - 2 - &

3 - & - & - & - 6

But it turns out it's the 4th note of the 16th which goes like now-

ven - 12 - a - a - 2

& - 3 - a - a - 5

Am I right?

Incase you're wondering what the hell is a ven, it's the beat just before 12, the 8th note of beat e-le-ven. That's how I say it




Ricardo -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 22 2024 15:24:04)

quote:

Am I right?


If by whatever your confused scribble means you do that E major arpegio 9e&ah10 that comes after, and it fixes all the rest, then YES. [:D]

To get that rhythm as EFDE, GAbFG, over top counts 12,1,2, and 3,4,5….you can do the classic drummer 4 against 3 syncopation (say “pass the goddamn butter” over 3 foot taps)




metalhead -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 22 2024 15:28:27)

confused scribble? the 'a's are what you call the 'ah' of the 16th notes. Common, you're saying as if I wrote this while being high on meth, it's basic math




Ricardo -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 22 2024 15:29:28)

quote:

ORIGINAL: metalhead

confused scribble? the 'a's are what you call the 'ah' of the 16th notes. Common, you're saying as if I wrote this while being high on meth, it's basic math


If you do meth instead of math that is your business. But you are off earlier and demanding clarification despite a clear backing track. You are welcome.




Mark2 -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 22 2024 16:32:45)

I think if you understand the palmas it becomes clear. Do you recognize the pattern in the palmas and would you know which beat you are on with just the palmas sounding? That is the issue, and it will continue to vex you as long as that is the case. Listen to some solo compas tracks of solea until you internalize the pattern(s)

BTW I was impressed with Ben's syncopation. Dude had good compas. May he RIP.




metalhead -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 22 2024 16:44:24)

quote:

I think if you understand the palmas it becomes clear. Do you recognize the pattern in the palmas and would you know which beat you are on with just the palmas sounding? That is the issue, and it will continue to vex you as long as that is the case. Listen to some solo compas tracks of solea until you internalize the pattern(s)


It's all good now, I was wrongly counting the phrasing from 2:24 to 2:26 as eight notes which lead me to missing a whole beat.




Ricardo -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 23 2024 15:03:26)

quote:

confused scribble? the 'a's are what you call the 'ah' of the 16th notes. Common, you're saying as if I wrote this while being high on meth, it's basic math


I reread what you wrote today and realize that you are trying to assign 16th note subdivisions over counts 12,1,2, and also 3,4,5. But you are not doing it correctly. The correct way is simply understand the polyrhythm 4:3 which turns out to be:

12..ah(2).&.(3)e..ah(thumb bass note)
3..ah(4).&.(5)e..ah, etc.

If you want to master it by the drummer rudiment “pass the god damn butter” the 3’s are “pass…God….but”, and the 4’s are “pass the…damn…er.” Good to learn it with two hands, or hand and foot doing either and switch.




metalhead -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 23 2024 18:19:17)

You're right, i counted it wrong again 😵




metalhead -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 23 2024 18:51:38)

I was a bit annoyed to having to re-practice it as I already developed the muscle memory after practicing it yesterday. But you know the funny thing? Today I sat back to practice it and started playing it by the counting you said, it turns I'd been playing by the exact same way yesterday. So despite writing it wrong here, while playing I played by the right subdivisions, most likely my intuition took over




Manitas de Lata -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 23 2024 21:41:28)

i didnt enjoy that solea

Prefer more like





metalhead -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 24 2024 7:05:03)

Damn purist I see




Ricardo -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 24 2024 15:27:39)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manitas de Lata

i didnt enjoy that solea

Prefer more like




Irrelevant, but worse, it is not Peña, it is R. Montoya and Sabicas material, Peña often records their stuff and takes credit. At least Ben wrote his own falsetas.




Manitas de Lata -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 24 2024 16:24:52)

i give it credit and i like other stuff from him , these solea not my cup of tea.

Daniel Casares also mixes very well traditional or old stuff with new , special in the last record "Guitarrissimo"

theres other american that plays well flamenco with interesting ideas , cant recall the name




metalhead -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 24 2024 16:36:54)

Wdym not my cup of tea? Too virtuosic? Too simple? Or else what?




Manitas de Lata -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 24 2024 19:54:08)

the main riff , very used in progressive metal . some hints of rumba (solos) of what Ricardo calls fakeflamenco (or whatever its called) recalling some spanish style near the sea where english and german people likes to stay and hear some fake whatever, no country style no hints of flamenco/solea , in my ignorance doesnt feel like a solea.

only the solo have some feeling , the rest sounds also to mechanic like you pratice tecnic with a metronome.

well thats my opinion , its a matter of personal taste




Stu -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 24 2024 23:02:09)

Some one help me. This isn't a solea is it?[:D]....

I like it. It's my cup of tea




Manitas de Lata -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 25 2024 0:26:05)

we can call it for sure , progressive metal "flamenco"

[:D]





metalhead -> RE: Can you help me count a solea? (Aug. 25 2024 11:55:46)

Hilarious but to each their own I guess




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