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Mark2 -> RE: flamenco guitar courses in spain versus technology (Jun. 21 2024 18:40:58)
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Of course you are correct in that you need the basics first. I skipped over those steps in my post because I already went through the initial training of playing for dance and standard square cante as sung in the US by a handful of non spanish singers.
The jump to the next level I'm finding is substancial in that you can't just memorize the chord changes -you have to actually know the cante, which, as you say, is a huge undertaking.
I'm at the place where I'm figuring out how pros play for various cantes, and copying their parts. After figuring out the where and when, I concentrate on the why. Why is the chord change here, and why is the extra six there. Then it's hearing the singer call for the change in the unusal(to me) place. This takes me quite a bit of time. A lot of repeated listenings.
I doubt I'll live long enough, or have enough of the immersive experience in order to be able to do it on the fly, but at least I can reach a new level of understanding and aficion. That and the pleasure of just playing along with a recording of a great singer and making the changes is well worth it to me.
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ORIGINAL: Ricardo
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For foreigners, the cante is often the last stop on the line, when it should be the first.
I think it should be listened to early on, but to actually do it you need some background stuff under your belt first. For example, after we can actually play several compás patterns, which normally only book end falsetas in a guitar solo, we are “ready” to start learning about dance accompaniment. In the class we quickly confront the issue of fitting the music to the dance, and memorizing dance steps, and the intellectual aspect of the art begins. In that context we eventually get to wrap our head around a full length “Soleá” let’s say, where we change gears, do llamadas to change tempos, escobillas that speed up etc. But imbedded in the routine we are learning there are the cantes that are more or less set in stone, depending on the dancer. We are “forced” to accompany the cante by supplying the required chord structure for the specific letras the dancer wants.
We learn to bridge between different cantes and that they have specific structures that function better fast or slow, etc. There are players that remain happy in this world indefinitely, memorizing the mathematics of steps and rhythms and only ever engage with singing that is predetermined to fit the choreographed structure. We often get lucky if we encounter the singer that knows how to improvise within these constraints such that they teach the attentive guitarist to listen to the variations on the models that work and don’t disturb the dancer. That is like baby steps into the world of cante, but it certainly makes it easier to understand formal structure than jumping in with an advanced singer that is throwing the guitarist curve balls left and right with the assumption that the tradition is well understood already.
The very first lesson that came from Diego Agujetas to a young Ricardo (me) in Sanlúcar was that my conception of the cuadrao cante melody (as typically done in dance) had to break, and so he sang the letras at weird entry points in hopes to throw me off track. It is a horrifying feeling but a valuable lesson. When I had a second chance (years of study later), I was ready, and because he realized I was, he took me to the next level of learning. Only certain initiated folks in the audience around us knew what was happening. That is why I am saying this thing is deep and not easy to do. You are correct that foreigners don’t get the chance unless they go there and immerse themselves.
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