How much is your Conde worth? (Full Version)

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Morante -> How much is your Conde worth? (May 30 2024 15:52:01)

https://www.theguardian.com/music/article/2024/may/29/john-lennon-guitar-sells-for-29m-breaking-beatles-auction-record

or Clapton´s Gerundino or a Conde played by PDL.

Ridicious prices for ordinary guitars[:D]



metalhead -> RE: How much is your Conde worth? (May 30 2024 16:27:31)

0, don't have one



Ricardo -> RE: How much is your Conde worth? (May 31 2024 11:48:13)

Think about how much of that should go to the members of the marketing machine that made the Beatlemania happen.

Another funny phenomenon is the Van Halen Frankenstrat. He bought a Charvel body for like 50 bucks with knots and flaws. Used like a screw driver to gouge out space for a Gibson humbucker that wouldn’t fit, Spray painted it black. Then, since music made no money and he and his brother were painting curb strips on the road with white paint as a day job, he took the left over white curb paint to cover the black with stripes. Working man’s axe was soon copied and he got upset so he slapped some red paint on top. The guitar company had painted a similar guitar called “bumble bee” as it had yellow stripes that he used briefly. Pantera guitarist offered VH tens of thousands for that junk which VH refused and was flabbergasted someone would want to pay for that junk. After Pantera Guitarist was murdered on stage, VH appeared at the funeral with the guitar he wanted and buried it with him. I am imagining the ancient Egyptian pharaoh tombs that are all raided.

Now those ugly guitars are an entire industry.



El Burdo -> RE: How much is your Conde worth? (May 31 2024 17:18:27)

quote:

Think about how much of that should go to the members of the marketing machine that made the Beatlemania happen.


Gotta come back on this! There was no marketing machine (well, maybe apart from Brian Epstein twiddling his record shop returns). It was 1963 (mostly). At least, the whole death grip by commerce on art had not developed to the extent that it has today where it is ALL about money. It was a different time. The Beatles became the phenomenon they did because people, not just 'kids', loved them. How many artists have you looked forward to releasing a new single/LP with an almost desperate passion? That is why they were so incredibly popular - maybe apart from in the States where I think Christians burned their stuff as it was evil.

And, yes - maybe Freda Kelly, the Beatles Fan Club secretary might have liked a bit more money, and Mal, the roadie/gopher. But they would tell you that it was the association that they loved. Times have changed.



etta -> RE: How much is your Conde worth? (May 31 2024 21:36:05)

Condes? I don't get it. I have owned a couple (briefly) and played a half dozen more, the high end models. They were the worst, heavy, and least responsive guitars I have played, and I have been through lots of good guitars. I would really like to play a good Conde some day.



devilhand -> RE: How much is your Conde worth? (May 31 2024 22:00:23)

quote:

Ridicious prices for ordinary guitars

A few years ago Kurt Cobain's unplugged guitar was sold for $6m.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/kurt-cobain-unplugged-guitar-auction-1018229/



Mark2 -> RE: How much is your Conde worth? (May 31 2024 22:12:06)

I understand the prices people pay for a piece of history. Be it a famous person's guitar, or a prop from a famous movie. Marlon Brando's desk from Godfather I, Hector Salamanca's bell from Breaking Bad, a guitar played by Jimi, whatever.

What I don't get is someone paying 50k for a fender strat that was made in the early 60's played by your uncle's neighbor. That guitar sold for 200.00 brand new and is the same guitar you can buy for 1,000 or less brand new today. The new one probably plays better.



Ricardo -> RE: How much is your Conde worth? (Jun. 2 2024 14:55:33)

quote:

What I don't get is someone paying 50k for a fender strat that was made in the early 60's played by your uncle's neighbor. That guitar sold for 200.00 brand new and is the same guitar you can buy for 1,000 or less brand new today. The new one probably plays better.


Well, classical guitars are the same thing. I was checking in on Yngwie because this gentleman I met showed me his Yngwie signature strat. They take (or make a replica of) a post 1971 style neck and body, change the 3 bolt to a 4 bolt on the back neck joint, change the pickups to stacked humbuckers, scallop the fingerboard, and charge $2,500. So that is not too bad I guess. But then I saw a video of the “custom shop” version, where they use older style body, and small details like maple cap etc, and price goes up to $5k. So this thing seems very similar to classical/flamenco guitars where you can get decent Valencia instruments, and only the small details give you the huge jump to Concert instruments, such as the nut and set up, slightly more brilliant treble response, etc. Then you have the vintage collector guitars which again are no different (used to be 2-$500), you just want that specific year and model or make that is no longer available (they jump above 20k in some cases). Yngwie revealed the absolute horrible original Strat pickups vs what that humbucker replacement does, which is akin to collector guitars that have bad set ups or need compensated frets etc., ie are actually inferior as functional instruments.

Flamenco as a genre, however, is not going to compete with beat up old flamenco guitars, even Paco de Lucia’s, at auctions of famous pop musicians like Gilmore, Clapton, etc. Even Clapton’s Spanish guitar (Alvarez) was like the highest selling classical guitar ever (or was).

Paco’s main Sobrinos de Esteso that he used on all those cante records, and we see him on stage with singers in the 1970s, looks in worse shape than mine, probably not even worth a trade.



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Echi -> RE: How much is your Conde worth? (Jun. 7 2024 10:48:22)

Nice picture.
I thought that guitar wasn't orange.
I own 2 Conde guitars from the sixties: a 64 negra and a 62 blanca and a 81. The blanca is as raw and dry sounding as that of Paco (obviously this is just my estimation from the recordings). It's much lighter that my 81 Conde and with shorter sides. The 2 guitars share the exact same fan bracing but top thickness is around 2.4 mm for the 62 Conde and 3 mm for the 81 Conde. The latter guitar weights 200 grams more. The 62 is fascinating but the 81 is an extraordinary guitar.

I for one prefer the sound of Paco playing the Ramirez blanca you can hear in a famous video recording than the raw sound of the Conde blanca



Ricardo -> RE: How much is your Conde worth? (Jun. 7 2024 13:39:21)

quote:

I thought that guitar wasn't orange.


I suspect it was done over in Red at the same time he did the Negra in red circa 1983/4. This guitar is shown in the Mexican beach house studio in the Documentary Francisco Sanchez, and I was able to identify it as the same 1968 conde used in Rito y Geografia via unusual grain lines on the heel as viewed down the neck line. It used to be orange gold like typical condes of the time (best color photo is the 7 inch disc with Juan de vara), and is the one he used on the famous 1974 performance with Mairena in Utrera corroborated by a Photo of the event. You can see the original orange gold coming through the golpeador where he might have tried to change it himself, did a bad job, and just covered over top of the old one a second golpeador to preserve it. His daughter Lucia owns this, and there are more photos by Felipe Conde who was asked to appraise it by her.

I for one don’t prefer the Ramirez, all things considered equal with the type of audio we are getting in Rito. There is a sparkle missing in the Rondeña, even if the guitar has a touch more sustain, that for example the Conde delivers in the Taranta (for a comparison). The Buleria is not a fair comparison, even with some of the same falsetas, because I note that the compression caused by Pepe’s loud voice, distorts and pushes the Conde back too far in the spectrum such that we are not getting the full voice of that guitar, capoed a fret higher as well. So for me, comparing the Rondeña to the Taranta gives a a little bit more realistic comparison.

One recording I really love that I assume is the above conde is the bootleg performance of Paco and Camaron in Brazil, a very raw recording and the guitar and voice work so perfectly together, better than the hi fi studio recordings IMO.



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