What are you working on? (Full Version)

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Mark2 -> What are you working on? (May 23 2024 20:55:43)

Just wondering how folks here spend their practice time. There are so many things I'd like to learn, sometimes I get distracted moving from one thing to another.

I've been putting in time working out guitar parts from recordings I like. Just for the fun of it. I've found that my playing is rather slow in that I often have to slow down a recording to have a chance at replicating the guitar part.

I'm using the mosies app which really is a great tool for this. It allows you to remove any instrument and focus on just the guitar, or remove the guitar and replace it with your own playing. This is so much better than just playing along with a record.

Here is an intro I worked on, and since the original recording is at 194 beats per minute, I had to slow it to about 182 in order to play the falseta cleanly. I've got the first few letras but this recording is just the intro.

https://youtu.be/p3nbMSvLhJU



machopicasso -> RE: What are you working on? (May 24 2024 4:43:57)

quote:

Just wondering how folks here spend their practice time.


I'm recovering from focal dystonia in my right (strumming) hand. So, I still spend some time each night doing guitar-specific rehab exercises. Happily, I'm about 80-90% recovered. The more my hand/arm/brain/? recovers, the more I'm able to play stuff I used to be able to play (which feels amazing).

At present, I'm slowly working on PDL's "Antonia," "Rio de la Miel," and some of his other falsetas for bulerias, as well as Antonio Rey's "Alma," his soleá "A mi compare Morao," and some of his material for rondeña.

Other pieces are vying for my attention. There's so much more I'd like to learn.



Stu -> RE: What are you working on? (May 24 2024 6:58:19)

Hi Mark.
I to do what you describe. Bouncing between things. Often, for me with little focus, just how a feel at any given moment.

That being said I also have more focused moments where I will learn a falseta, transcribe from a video.

At the moment I'm religiously practicing picado and alzapua every time I pick up the guitar. Usually as a warm up I suppose. Also, all the falsetas in lesson are loosely being added to a potential set for a gig I may or may not play at some point. Met a cajon player recently and r are paining on making music together at some point so I have that in my head.

I'd like to focus more on recording myself. And getting back to accompanying dance classes now the smoke is clearing from young kids. I often feel like I'm a bedroom guitarist these days which I find really frustrating and the phrase "urgh whats the point" often pops into my head. From o positive pov though... like come on, get back out there. My bedroom walls know I can play a decent alegrias! But does anyone else. 🤔 [:D]



Ricardo -> RE: What are you working on? (May 24 2024 13:26:18)

For flamenco/rumba, I just learned Manteca Colorá….so far I don’t have anybody to play it with. My friend in Switzerland sent a video working on it so I learned too.

At home I have mainly returned to my roots, as in I got my old electric guitar fixed and now I have two electric guitars, such that at random points during the day I can’t help but to grab one or the other and start shredding and riffing on the old metal tunes I did as a kid. It is so satisfying for some reason to come back to that 80’s rock aesthetic, like rediscovering some food you used to love but had not even tasted it in years. It took some time to work up the picking hand again, but I have it pretty good now. My go to stuff is Racer-X, Van Halen, Yngwie, Ozzy, Extreme, Maiden, Jason Becker, etc., but I worked up an arrangement of The Phantom by Chick Corea that Al Dimeola recorded at some point…it was an RTF reunion tune that just has some fun rhythmic melodies etc. I would love to incorporate the electric guitar in with my flamenco rumba/jazz fusion stuff… the challenge is to find a gig opportunity where we actually get paid and I can afford to convince other people to learn and practice something like this. I have a drummer and Jazz horn player already onboard and a bass player that can read anything. But we need to find the gig while I am still busy working doing normal flamenco and rumba gigs where this combo would not work.

And then there are a few Renaissance Vihuela pieces I had been working on in Rondeña tuning, one more like a Rondeña proper that I arrange by cherry picking phrases that are in that specific tonality, and then a full piece that is polyphonic set to Soleá compás (similar to when I did that Bach Chaconne to Jaleo compás). It is in B phrygian, very similar to grips Tomatito used in that Buleria Barrio Santiago. I have no intention of recording or performing any of it, however, for my own personal satisfaction I must admit how fun it is to realize a Josquin de Prez Flemish polyphonic kyrie into a little buleria falseta por Rondeña. That type of thing is really satisfying for some reason. Here was a recent post:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=352980&appid=&p=&mpage=2&key=vihuela&tmode=&smode=&s=#353318



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



Mark2 -> RE: What are you working on? (May 24 2024 20:33:55)

I hope you continue to heal. It's super frustrating to not be able to play your best. I had a thumbnail virus and lost my thumb nail for two years so I understand. That's some tough material your working on. Alma has some brutal stretches. The first time I saw Antonio perform in 2019 he played it and completely destroyed the room. I'll never forget it. I spent a good piece of time on A mi compare Morao and still have some of the falsetas under my fingers. Doubt I'll ever be able to play the whole piece.


quote:

ORIGINAL: machopicasso

quote:

Just wondering how folks here spend their practice time.


I'm recovering from focal dystonia in my right (strumming) hand. So, I still spend some time each night doing guitar-specific rehab exercises. Happily, I'm about 80-90% recovered. The more my hand/arm/brain/? recovers, the more I'm able to play stuff I used to be able to play (which feels amazing).

At present, I'm slowly working on PDL's "Antonia," "Rio de la Miel," and some of his other falsetas for bulerias, as well as Antonio Rey's "Alma," his soleá "A mi compare Morao," and some of his material for rondeña.

Other pieces are vying for my attention. There's so much more I'd like to learn.



Mark2 -> RE: What are you working on? (May 24 2024 20:49:44)

I remember RonM calling himself as a bedroom player and at that time I was gigging a lot, but now I'm a living room player. My dog doesn't seem to care, but he gets excited when I put the guitar in the case because he knows I'll pay attention to him now, and and my wife is tolerant of my consistant noise making.

The thing is, once you let go of the "gig" you have the freedom to do whatever you want. I asked Tino what he thought I should work on, and he said whatever gives you the most pleasure. I could take that to mean I'm never going to do anything in flamenco so it doesn't matter, or I can embrace the freedom from having to prepare for a gig, and study for my own satisfaction. I'm going for the latter, and enjoying flamenco as much as I ever did.

I did the dance class thing for about five years, and I had kids at home during that time. 20 young women in class was a bit of a distraction, and I eventually extracted myself from that level of temptation. I do miss it sometimes but don't want to commit my time, especially during football season.




quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu

Hi Mark.
I to do what you describe. Bouncing between things. Often, for me with little focus, just how a feel at any given moment.

That being said I also have more focused moments where I will learn a falseta, transcribe from a video.

At the moment I'm religiously practicing picado and alzapua every time I pick up the guitar. Usually as a warm up I suppose. Also, all the falsetas in lesson are loosely being added to a potential set for a gig I may or may not play at some point. Met a cajon player recently and r are paining on making music together at some point so I have that in my head.

I'd like to focus more on recording myself. And getting back to accompanying dance classes now the smoke is clearing from young kids. I often feel like I'm a bedroom guitarist these days which I find really frustrating and the phrase "urgh whats the point" often pops into my head. From o positive pov though... like come on, get back out there. My bedroom walls know I can play a decent alegrias! But does anyone else. 🤔 [:D]



Mark2 -> RE: What are you working on? (May 24 2024 21:01:49)

I've got a collection of electrics but rarely pull one out. I'm still struggling with flamenco technique. I feel like I have more understanding than chops. I think it's a problem with most non Spanish players. For every one who has the chops, there are hundreds of folks who can't come close to measure up to the average Spanish pro. That is not the case with electric guitar players. I see young people on youtube who play electric better than I ever did but have never done a gig.

I also like the RTF era of fusion. When Stanley Clark released his School Days album I went to the gig he did in Berkeley. Ray Gomez was on guitar. That guy really was a great player. I didn't realize until much later that he was the inspiration for Jeff Beck playing melodies with harmonics and a whammy bar like he did on the tune "where were you"


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

For flamenco/rumba, I just learned Manteca Colorá….so far I don’t have anybody to play it with. My friend in Switzerland sent a video working on it so I learned too.

At home I have mainly returned to my roots, as in I got my old electric guitar fixed and now I have two electric guitars, such that at random points during the day I can’t help but to grab one or the other and start shredding and riffing on the old metal tunes I did as a kid. It is so satisfying for some reason to come back to that 80’s rock aesthetic, like rediscovering some food you used to love but had not even tasted it in years. It took some time to work up the picking hand again, but I have it pretty good now. My go to stuff is Racer-X, Van Halen, Yngwie, Ozzy, Extreme, Maiden, Jason Becker, etc., but I worked up an arrangement of The Phantom by Chick Corea that Al Dimeola recorded at some point…it was an RTF reunion tune that just has some fun rhythmic melodies etc. I would love to incorporate the electric guitar in with my flamenco rumba/jazz fusion stuff… the challenge is to find a gig opportunity where we actually get paid and I can afford to convince other people to learn and practice something like this. I have a drummer and Jazz horn player already onboard and a bass player that can read anything. But we need to find the gig while I am still busy working doing normal flamenco and rumba gigs where this combo would not work.

And then there are a few Renaissance Vihuela pieces I had been working on in Rondeña tuning, one more like a Rondeña proper that I arrange by cherry picking phrases that are in that specific tonality, and then a full piece that is polyphonic set to Soleá compás (similar to when I did that Bach Chaconne to Jaleo compás). It is in B phrygian, very similar to grips Tomatito used in that Buleria Barrio Santiago. I have no intention of recording or performing any of it, however, for my own personal satisfaction I must admit how fun it is to realize a Josquin de Prez Flemish polyphonic kyrie into a little buleria falseta por Rondeña. That type of thing is really satisfying for some reason. Here was a recent post:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=352980&appid=&p=&mpage=2&key=vihuela&tmode=&smode=&s=#353318




Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



Stu -> RE: What are you working on? (May 25 2024 11:36:42)

Yeah good thoughts Mark. I his as long as its enjoyable and it mostly always had been. Even as a bedroom/living room guitarist the study and discipline and progression is where i really find value. But do have the yearning to play with others right now.

Anyway I forgot to mention I'm re learning some of Vicente amigos farruca. And just started gerardo nunez trafalgar again. Thought I'd try again with my fancy new nail shape.

There's a come of huge stretches in that too. Early on. Index on 2 on A string, pinky on 7 on e. Jeeeez



JasonM -> RE: What are you working on? (May 25 2024 15:02:36)

quote:

For flamenco/rumba, I just learned Manteca Colorá….so far I don’t have anybody to play it with


Well shoot man, I’d like to learn this one. Although I might be humoring us both! But I was making progress on Cardeosa and this seems sorta easier.
How is the Leiva’s transcription? I have the book but have barely used it.

Working on flamenco.. lately I say to myself, given my skill, is this worth the investment of practicing? Do I like it enough to stick with it when I hit a road block, or more importantly when I realize it’s beyond my abilities! I’ve been down that road countless times and I’m lacking the inspiration to push through lately.



Ricardo -> RE: What are you working on? (May 26 2024 14:30:10)

quote:

How is the Leiva’s transcription? I have the book but have barely used it.


Well considering he puts it in C#minor instead of D minor, it is not useable. However I checked it out and in transposition it is not bad. I learned it as per the live performance (only one on YouTube) and there is a middle part they changed slightly.

I am actually thinking of just doing a melody of both Cardeosa and this one as a single performance with less improvisation needed.



JasonM -> RE: What are you working on? (May 26 2024 17:38:29)

Before I saw your reply here I opened the book to look at the chords, I was already like umm this doesn’t seem right.. F#m7? Capo? That doesn’t seem right, uggh!



hamia -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 9 2024 16:03:07)

Working on some pieces by a youtuber LucasGitanoFamily. Not flamenco but spanish style. He sells tabs and backing tracks for only about 5 euros. These are some tuneful ones: Cafe de Nuit, Recuerdo Arles, Yank, Nenekku, Ne t'en va pas, Besame Mucho, Here to Stay. Well worth checking out. Need decent technique to play well but good practice material in any event.



rombsix -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 11 2024 12:47:32)

Guajiras de Lucia [:D][8D]



Norman Paul Kliman -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 11 2024 18:10:18)

I only work on it when the juices are flowing: p-i-p triplets por bulería. Easy por soleá and other styles, but very hard to play clean and strong por bulería. Of course, Paco recorded great, early examples (I think La tumbona is one). Aside from that, it wasn’t common until well into the 2000s, as far as I know. Around 2000, I heard it on that “Familia Zambo” recording (released in 1999), played by either Moraíto or son Diego in a “por fiesta” bulería (A major and E7). But what really sparked my interest was a video I saw a few years ago of a live performance of older singers from the Santiago neighborhood of Jerez. The guitarist was Juan Parrilla (father of today’s Manuel Parrilla and brother of Parrilla de Jerez) and, just before some old woman starts singing, he throws in a really cool p-i-p triplet falseta por bulería (A and B flat) like it was nothing. I spent a long time working on that one and still can’t do it right but am finally getting results by starting on beat 3 instead of 1. It still surprises me because it’s so simple when you slow it down to soleá speed, but it seems completely different at bulería speed. Like downshifting to second gear at highway speed. Manuel Parrilla (son of Juan) uses that mecanismo extremely well.



Ricardo -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 12 2024 13:46:47)

I usually simply apply Soleá por Bulería triplet phrases up in tempo, just like any other Soleá 1-10 count phrases that might happen in Bulería, for example escobilla things. Alegrías transition to Bulerías de Cadiz same idea. I honestly find the synchopated blue-grass-esque 16th notes (4 per beat) that employ the same p-i-p, technique, far more challenging to get precise in time. I work on those more. Here is one I practice a lot por arriba, slow first then at tempo:




silddx -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 12 2024 17:28:06)

Love that, Ricardo!



Norman Paul Kliman -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 12 2024 23:00:41)

Nice wind-up and pitch. This is what I’m working on, at beginning and end of video. It’s the harder of two variations. Still dragging tempo during mechanism. The other variation has B flat and G on beats 3 and 4 and is easier for some reason.

http://canteytoque.es/pip-triplet-buleria.mp4

I forgot to mention Periquín, Niño Jero, as an early developer of this mechanism, especially por arriba.



Ricardo -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 13 2024 15:57:57)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norman Paul Kliman

Nice wind-up and pitch. This is what I’m working on, at beginning and end of video. It’s the harder of two variations. Still dragging tempo during mechanism. The other variation has B flat and G on beats 3 and 4 and is easier for some reason.

http://canteytoque.es/pip-triplet-buleria.mp4

I forgot to mention Periquín, Niño Jero, as an early developer of this mechanism, especially por arriba.


Cool! One trick I would try myself is to start it with a pick up contra triplet from the G, just like when it repeats. And loop the repeating phrase a million times before trying to put it in context. Because of the hammer pull it feels a little crossed against the accent, so a loop will establish that feel. And for the fast version would spring off the contra after golpe count 1& up stroke. So I have that space on count 2 to prepare the pulgar.



JasonM -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 13 2024 16:40:38)

I’ve been working on Manteca for a bit now. It’s a little slow going because I’m using a combination of the CD, the one live video, and the tab.

All these years later and I’m still getting stuff out of the Luzia album. Probably a liftetime!



Ricardo -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 13 2024 18:00:47)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

I’ve been working on Manteca for a bit now. It’s a little slow going because I’m using a combination of the CD, the one live video, and the tab.

All these years later and I’m still getting stuff out of the Luzia album. Probably a liftetime!

I will text you the video of the chord structure played along to the live version, via WhatsApp.



Norman Paul Kliman -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 13 2024 20:10:13)

quote:

Cool! One trick I would try myself is to start it with a pick up contra triplet from the G, just like when it repeats. And loop the repeating phrase a million times before trying to put it in context. Because of the hammer pull it feels a little crossed against the accent, so a loop will establish that feel. And for the fast version would spring off the contra after golpe count 1& up stroke. So I have that space on count 2 to prepare the pulgar.


Let's see it.



Ricardo -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 14 2024 20:12:33)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norman Paul Kliman

quote:

Cool! One trick I would try myself is to start it with a pick up contra triplet from the G, just like when it repeats. And loop the repeating phrase a million times before trying to put it in context. Because of the hammer pull it feels a little crossed against the accent, so a loop will establish that feel. And for the fast version would spring off the contra after golpe count 1& up stroke. So I have that space on count 2 to prepare the pulgar.


Let's see it.


Challenge accepted, but busy till Sunday. Also I can’t see exactly the left hand in your video so I will be approximating it a bit based on how it sounds.



Norman Paul Kliman -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 15 2024 10:06:00)

quote:

I can’t see exactly the left hand in your video so I will be approximating it a bit based on how it sounds.


Here’s a score. Falseta at 0:19 and 0:45 in the video.
http://canteytoque.es/pip-triplet-buleria.png

I hope you realize that I know my playing's not spot on in the video. Usually, the mechanism is out of control and the rest is tighter, and it came out vice versa in the video, much to my surprise. I was actually going to post the score instead of a video, because so far I've been able to nail it just a few times a month. Getting closer, but still a long way to go.



Ricardo -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 15 2024 15:19:03)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norman Paul Kliman

quote:

I can’t see exactly the left hand in your video so I will be approximating it a bit based on how it sounds.


Here’s a score. Falseta at 0:19 and 0:45 in the video.
http://canteytoque.es/pip-triplet-buleria.png

I hope you realize that I know my playing's not spot on in the video. Usually, the mechanism is out of control and the rest is tighter, and it came out vice versa in the video, much to my surprise. I was actually going to post the score instead of a video, because so far I've been able to nail it just a few times a month. Getting closer, but still a long way to go.


Got it thanks. Are you putting the Bb and D together on the index up strokes because the Bb is incidentally held, or do you actively sweep across two strings? I normally think of it as only the D notes, but I guess I sometimes hit two strings on the way up when playing louder.

That one mechanism with the hammer pull I was doing as the one I got from Manuel Morao, and I see now it is very different, ooops. I have drilled it so much I just did it right away at speed without really checking yours. Morao version uses up down stroke with index like this: D string: 0-2-0-(High E:0-0), 5th:C, etc., and in the version he does he is very accurate at only hitting that open E string with index even though it feels like strumming. I will work on your version of course.



Norman Paul Kliman -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 15 2024 20:05:26)

I aim for the D on the second string, pull on it with my index a little harder than in other situations, and the B flat on the third string rings along with it. So sweeping across both strings, I guess, but I don’t really think of it that way. It’s the same story with my thumb and the B flat and D on the fifth and fourth strings, respectively. The score doesn’t show it, and I don’t think I do it in the video, either, but I try to when things are coming out right. Just a little more oomph and two strings ring instead of one.

quote:

...I see now it is very different, ooops.


Well, mine’s not any official model or standard pattern, if that’s what you’re implying. Just a very simple idea that really doesn’t leave much room for guesswork, although I suppose slight variations in the right-hand approach are possible.

If you want to “drink from the well” for this mechanism, Manuel Parrilla (son of Juan) plays it effortlessly. Here at 2:15:



Domingo Rubichi is another, mostly a falseta por arriba that ends with his variation of something Periquin used to play a lot. It's a good model to learn from because it's very straightforward. I'd call it easy if it weren't for the tempo. I've just spent about half an hour looking for it online unsuccessfully. Maybe in one of his videos with Antonio Agujetas (por arriba). As I said upthread, the source of my inspiration was Juan Parrilla (father of Manuel). The video’s hard to find. I think I can locate it in a message sent to our friend Henry Jova. It's on an old computer that I'll have to dig out, dust off and fire up.



Auda -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 16 2024 0:40:30)

Ricardo - do you have a tutorial video for the pulger por solea you posted above? Or tabs? I think you did a tutorial for the rasq. portion at the beginning.

Cheers



Ricardo -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 16 2024 17:01:50)

quote:

you want to “drink from the well” for this mechanism, Manuel Parrilla (son of Juan) plays it effortlessly. Here at 2:15:


Hmm, that thing he is doing is easier than what you are working on. Mainly because on count 3 he starts p-p-i on the beat, Bb-D-high E. To go p-i-p, etc. is trickier, and why I had suggested to do something like I got from Manuel Morao where you really think of it as p-p-i but the first p is a pick up note, and it gets the ball rolling easier. I was thinking that C note on the 5th was actually a G on the 6th, so you dont’ have to do a double pick on the same string at that speed…it is way harder to double pick the thumb that way. The main idea I get from Manuel Morao would be to put the index note on the high E as I explained earlier, but instead of the Bb falling on the beat, it would be the open D string. Anyway, forgot it is Father’s Day but I am gonna try to get your version down anyway.



Ricardo -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 16 2024 17:06:25)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Auda

Ricardo - do you have a tutorial video for the pulger por solea you posted above? Or tabs? I think you did a tutorial for the rasq. portion at the beginning.

Cheers


Sorry, that WAS the tutorial. [:D] I guess you mean a slow note by note thing. Well, you can slow my slow version down and get it note by note I think. I will have a por medio version of the first half coming out eventually in the Mel Bay book (sorry it has been on hold forever, finished a year ago). A similar mechanism is used in the Siguiriyas of Manuel Morao I had a video on long ago, but it is not a tutorial either, just slow fast demo. But if you check the first falseta of the Paco Tutorial 9 Siguiriyas I put out last year, I do an in depth explanation of a similar mechanism there.



Ricardo -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 16 2024 19:15:21)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norman Paul Kliman

quote:

Cool! One trick I would try myself is to start it with a pick up contra triplet from the G, just like when it repeats. And loop the repeating phrase a million times before trying to put it in context. Because of the hammer pull it feels a little crossed against the accent, so a loop will establish that feel. And for the fast version would spring off the contra after golpe count 1& up stroke. So I have that space on count 2 to prepare the pulgar.


Let's see it.


Here you go:




Norman Paul Kliman -> RE: What are you working on? (Jun. 16 2024 19:44:25)

That’s the stuff. Very good, sir! I see you’re starting on beat “2-and”, which I’d never thought of trying (will practice it this evening), and you sometimes do it on the sixth-string G to put that fifth-string B flat on beat 3. Clever. I think I'd rather start on beat 3, but I'll try your way to see if it sounds better. One small difference when you play my version is you don’t slur on the fourth string, as indicated in the score. Not that it’s a necessary detail, although once you add slurs to the mechanism, it quickly turns into something else. If you want to check it out, use slurs as much as possible in the score I linked to upthread. When I say “as much as possible” I don’t mean as many slurs as possible but using them as often as possible as a way of reducing the number of right-hand finger strokes. I’d write a score to make my point, but it’s a crazy pattern that’s still too much for me and might not sound as good, anyway.



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