kitarist -> RE: Third String Difference (Feb. 6 2024 1:55:53)
|
quote:
Konstantin, what is this excel? Can you share? This is just something I started putting together more than 10 years ago when I was trying to understand the seemingly contradictory or inconsistent tension and other values. I haven't really put a lot more work into it past the initial burst; in part because it is near impossible to find reference length scale values used by companies - only a couple provide this info - thus exact comparisons cannot be made in most cases. Also, back then I thought the published diameters, tension, are measurements and treated them as such to an extent. Putting in one place whatever I could find from several different companies, I started noticing impossibilities, like same diameter, same material, same open-string tuning, but very different tensions - thus realizing there are a lot of typos in published values. Since then, I learned a few facts which obviate the need for an exhaustive database of materials, diameters, reference length scales, and tensions - especially about treble strings; I focus on nylon trebles below as these are the vast majority of strings offered on the classical/flamenco guitar string market: 1. The tension values are not measurements, but calculated ideal values (string NOT tensioned on guitar) given the physical relationship between material density, diameter, length scale, and desired reference open-string frequency. 2. The diameters are also not measured, but are specs passed along from the actual manufacturers - giant plastics companies (Dupont, Toray) for whom making a batch of guitar strings is a rounding error compared to what they extrude these monofilaments for. 3. Consequently, the guitar companies order the trebles and do not get to freely choose diameters - there are only a few diameters available to choose from. Like around 0.711 mm; 0.813 mm; 1.016 mm for the lower tier tension set, and 0.736; 0.838; 1.041 mm for the higher tension tier. (Note also that any diameters given in mm are derived from the original mil (1/1000 inch) specs, or vice versa if extrusion plant equipment settings are in mm, so these are prone to typos/mistakes from conversion on top of any typos when listing the factory diameters). 4. There are only two types of nylon that can be/are used for musical strings: PA 6-12 (regular nylon guitar strings) and PA12 (Savarez's Cristal/New Cristal). PA = polyamide. 5. Coloured nylon is regular nylon (PA 6-12) with colour dye added being less than 2% of the total mass. Does not change the density or tensile stiffness, apparently, but perhaps can change a bit the shear stiffness so pushing a black string across its length axis as we do in sound generation on guitar may feel a bit different. So that's a lot of constraints. For example, listing a nylon G string as 1.027mm and 1.041 mm probably means the actual specs are 1.041 mm for both (40 mils is 1.016mm; 41 mils is 1.0414; there are no finer offerings between whole mil numbers). Also a diameter and material implies density, and there are only a couple possibilities - PA 6-12 is around 1.06 g/cm3, and PA12 is a bit less dense, at 1.01 g/cm3. (Nylon absorbs moisture so values vary a bit depending on that). And this in turn implies tension at a given open-string tuning and reference length scale. The actual, on-the-guitar, tensioned string, stabilized tension is different from the listed one - it is lower, and it declines more for the B and E trebles than the G string as they stretch more. As a result, the three trebles stabilized on the guitar have a lot more uniform tension profile than what the listed tension look like. The actual diameters (before stringing) are not identical to the listed one (which is the spec one, effectively the mean one) but have some Gaussian distribution around that mean because of micro-variations in extrusion temperature etc. for the same batch. All of this made me realize that there is a lot of smoke and mirrors to sell us essentially the same two wines repackaged with different fancy labels and claimed unique characteristics. Which made having an exhaustive strings database less important than what I initially thought - the system is hugely over-determined and only a few points of data are needed. (then we have PVDF = "carbon"; PEEK = D'Addario composite and some others; and alot more from Aquila which is totally unique in that it has its own extrusion plant and actively makes new string materials). But here is my excel file anyway: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OVEVU5eUy2XFrs5TmCyibEt5umynWLq8
|
|
|
|