How to start analyzing the falsetas I learn (Full Version)

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metalhead -> How to start analyzing the falsetas I learn (Jan. 24 2024 14:20:56)

One thing i learnt is that plainly learning falsetas would not help me develop musical ideas in the futire. I need to understand what went inside the creator's mind when he composed a falseta. However, I'm not sure how should i start

Take this tomatito falseta that he plays @0:28 : https://youtu.be/2BCoZiSbGtY?si=Zm9zsOL5WGhRCZ45&t=28

How should i start to break what went inside tomatito's head when he created this? Did he choose the exact same sequence when he first started composing this falseta? I think most likely not? So then did he choose a particular chord progression, noddled around with different arpeggio patterns and tried to piece those patterns in together?



xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: How to start analyzing the falsetas I learn (Jan. 24 2024 14:43:16)

There are several ways of composing obviously. I'd bet big money that typically flamencos don't go down the analytical route. Some falsetas are created accidentally, as in they're noodling around the fretboard, realise something sounds good, and build on that. Another way is that you hear music in your mind and adapt them onto the fretboard. You can consciously look for interesting ideas on your guitar, based around certain techniques, tunings, open strings, etc. I asked a moderately well known guitarist about this and he said he regularly just explores the guitar to find these interesting little ideas. Incidentally he has quite a few compositions in alternate tunings.



Mark2 -> RE: How to start analyzing the falsetas I learn (Jan. 24 2024 17:19:45)

I learned that one when the Encuentro video came out. Played it a lot and learned it well because I incorporated it into a bulerias I played on gigs. It has a lot in common with many other falsetas. The harmonic movement is common but there are a few wrinkles. And it has syncopation.

It never crossed my mind to consider what Tomatito was thinking when he created it, but it may have influenced other players because there a lot of falsetas that contain at least a few elements of it. Or perhaps he heard those elements and used them to write this one.

I think if you learn it well, it will be easy to create variations. Start by changing a few things-the run at the end for example, or replace one of the passing shords, etc.

I don't think it's important to know what Tomatito was thinking, but if I had a chance to ask him, I guess I would.



Stu -> RE: How to start analyzing the falsetas I learn (Jan. 24 2024 17:20:25)

I have a book of falsetas that shows how the same falseta evolves with each generation of players/composers.

I think the book was mainly concerned with some solea falsetas but I imagine the practice transcends all palos.

This particular bulerías falseta seems to me to be an evolution of/connected to Paco's jerezana. (Which is prob derived from earlier falsetas etc etc) Which starts in the same place and follows the same progression.
I can think of many other falsetas that follow. Couple from buleriando, Gerardo's el gallo azul, (maybe) pacos el tempul and countless more. Do they all start and end in the same place?

I mean I could be talking rubbish ...

I'm sure all the players of these falsetas are aware of each of the variations that come before them.

But I guess the question is are they deliberate nods to what came before or just inevitable due the musical framework of whatever Palo it is?
Or maybe a bit of both.


Oh posted at the same time mark!

I think I'm saying the same thing as you....

quote:

I don't think it's important to know what Tomatito was thinking, but if I had a chance to ask him, I guess I would


I used to act. I remember a discussion with a director and another student talking about how much research and backround work was necessary.

If you are playing Hamlet... Do you think it is helpful to know the history of Denmark's royal family? No!
If you are a boxer.... How will knowing the history of boxing help you when you are face to face with Mike Tyson?!!



Manitas de Lata -> RE: How to start analyzing the falsetas I learn (Jan. 24 2024 22:37:58)

do you know the name of the book?



Ricardo -> RE: How to start analyzing the falsetas I learn (Jan. 25 2024 11:58:45)

The idea he is using comes from Paco de Lucia, here the second falseta of the two that I demonstrate:



This arpeggiated chord starts with similar material he had developed earlier based on Manuel de Falla. Tomatito simplifies the concept by doing an ami arp and melodic sequence with first chord moving down the scale diatonically (circle of 4th progression, Gm-C7-F7 or 2-5-1 in jazz). Notice the similar idea of alternating between Eb and E natural above the F chord (ami arps starting 27:26). Paco moves to Bb, where as Tomatito concludes with D7-Gm, and both use a pulgar remate (the ending phrases of the falsetas). This ending F major barre arp of paco is a lot more sophisticated than the simple sequence Tomatito uses, and Paco himself changed this section to something simpler in the 1980s.



Ricardo -> RE: How to start analyzing the falsetas I learn (Jan. 26 2024 11:52:19)

quote:

I need to understand what went inside the creator's mind when he composed a falseta. However, I'm not sure how should i start


One thing I realized when was looking through the vihuela tabs of the renaissance, is that when we learn music we enter a subjective world of another artist, which is pretty cool. So in a sense, simply LEARNING the correct material you ARE developing that material in small doses. In fact, you are learning the complex theory function of the music, but not in a cerebral ‘Rick Beato” manner, but rather, in a much deeper intuitive way. That is why to address your question I was able to cite the genre itself (paco) as a likely influence. That comes from studying the traditional material. And by “traditional” I really mean “authentic” not old necessarily. Modern players carry the tradition for sure. It is wise to get a wide sampling of falsetas and accompanying techniques from players of various generations.



metalhead -> RE: How to start analyzing the falsetas I learn (Jan. 26 2024 19:52:53)

that makes sense; Is that what players mean when they say 'i play by sound'? Do they combine those millions of past ideas from different pieces, in our case falsetas, and then just jumble around and see what works?

yes I'm trying to do just that that is get falsetas from the old players. However your previous comment did not really make sense; i mean the theory part ; i don't know



JasonM -> RE: How to start analyzing the falsetas I learn (Jan. 27 2024 15:06:57)

Vicente said in an interview stuff pops into his head at weird random times, like walking from his car into the grocery store. But of course it didn’t just come out of the quantum vacuum either, he started learning Tomatito and Paco falsetas early on.

Even if you don’t understand, the more you learn falsetas the more you start to see the common threads woven in, and where the artist has added their own unique style.



Ricardo -> RE: How to start analyzing the falsetas I learn (Jan. 27 2024 15:48:59)

quote:

that makes sense; Is that what players mean when they say 'i play by sound'? Do they combine those millions of past ideas from different pieces, in our case falsetas, and then just jumble around and see what works?


Correct. Unlike say rock players or whatever that find some riff and make a new song with it, Paco for example admitted he had to trash most of his creations because they didn’t sound flamenco ENOUGH, upon play back. He made an example of his own Minera that he didn’t know what was wrong with it but something was missing and had to go back to Ramon Montoya’s version to rediscover the right flavor. It is totally intuitive in the end.



xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: How to start analyzing the falsetas I learn (Jan. 27 2024 18:23:34)

Everything you listen to will influence you, but especially everything that you learn or transcribe. I learned quite a few falsetas, but I've transcribed hundreds of pieces and therefore was able to to inspect many unique ideas. Later on when I sit down to compose, some of these unconsciously manifest themselves in my own pieces. These can be anything, not necessary harmonic or melodic ideas, but technical ideas specific to the guitar.



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