What if Paco... (Full Version)

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devilhand -> What if Paco... (Dec. 25 2023 12:19:22)

The other day I was asking myself what if questions about Paco and development of flamenco guitar.
What if Paco had never been born, what would the world of flamenco guitar be like today in terms of technique and popularity and what would have been different?

The second question kind of builds on the first one. Imagine flamenco guitar has evolved without Paco. Now recall young Paco in the 60s or 70s.
How would he do in today's world of flamenco? Would he be considered special or would he be just another young tocaor?



Ricardo -> RE: What if Paco... (Dec. 26 2023 17:31:57)

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

The other day I was asking myself what if questions about Paco and development of flamenco guitar.
What if Paco had never been born, what would the world of flamenco guitar be like today in terms of technique and popularity and what would have been different?

The second question kind of builds on the first one. Imagine flamenco guitar has evolved without Paco. Now recall young Paco in the 60s or 70s.
How would he do in today's world of flamenco? Would he be considered special or would he be just another young tocaor?


These type of questions are about as pointless as “what if” you run the biology of earth all over again. The geological or outside influences at precisely timed moments in history are instrinsicly tied to the evolution process. If you alter these, of course things change. But there is not really a point to the exercise to separate the intrinsic elements.

“What if Devilhand got a real flamenco guitar and teacher?”

See how pointless that was?



Stu -> RE: What if Paco... (Dec. 26 2023 19:33:00)

Reminds me if an old phrase.....

"If my aunty had ****, she'd be my uncle"



Piwin -> RE: What if Paco... (Dec. 26 2023 19:53:03)

Riqueni would've been more famous and there wouldn't be cajons everywhere?



AndresK -> RE: What if Paco... (Dec. 27 2023 8:52:40)

In Greece we use the same phrase with
Grandma and grandpa[:D]

There is also a more polite phrase that says
if my grandma had wheels she would be a skate board.



Stu -> RE: What if Paco... (Dec. 27 2023 14:16:24)

quote:


In Greece we use the same phrase with
Grandma and grandpa

There is also a more polite phrase that says
if my grandma had wheels she would be a skate board


[:D][:D]

Brilliant. I actually think I've heard a variation of that skateboard one! [:D]



devilhand -> RE: What if Paco... (Dec. 27 2023 17:49:27)

quote:

These type of questions are about as pointless as “what if” you run the biology of earth all over again. The geological or outside influences at precisely timed moments in history are instrinsicly tied to the evolution process. If you alter these, of course things change. But there is not really a point to the exercise to separate the intrinsic elements.

It's not about philosophical questions like what if the big bang never happened. So we need to relax and entertain ourselves and others.

Maybe the reason you dont want to discuss is if there had been no Paco, there would have been no Saturday night in SF. Consequently, most guys including you who are into flamenco because of Paco or SF, would have never come to know what flamenco is. For example you would have ended up shredding on e-guitar only?



devilhand -> RE: What if Paco... (Dec. 27 2023 17:53:11)

quote:

Riqueni would've been more famous and there wouldn't be cajons everywhere?

Yes, you're right about cajons. But why Riqueni? I would ask who was under Paco's shadow most of the time? A few names come to my mind. Serranito, M. Sanlucar, Enrique de Melchor, Cepero or Paco's brother Ramon?



Ricardo -> RE: What if Paco... (Dec. 27 2023 20:13:32)

quote:

Maybe the reason you dont want to discuss is if there had been no Paco, there would have been no Saturday night in SF.


Flamenco is defined by the cante. There are plenty of aficionados and artists that don’t give 2 shytes about Paco or what he did or didn’t do to influence guitar players, because they are fine with a guy that plays like melchor de Marchena and nothing more is required. Now if want to remove Melchor, Ricardo, Montoya, Morao, Javier Molina, etc etc, what do we end up with? So it gets more and more pointless an exercise. Flamenco can be learned and mastered and even furthered along if one ignores Paco, and even Camaron. There is just not much point to doing that deliberately.



Flamenco4U -> RE: What if Paco... (Dec. 28 2023 4:31:37)

That was actually pretty funny.



joevidetto -> RE: What if Paco... (Dec. 28 2023 13:32:08)

quote:

These type of questions are about as pointless


If you really deconstruct the sum total of human verbal interactions, I'd say a whole lot fall into the category of "pointless" - lighten up and have some fun ; )

I can give a clear answer to this, based on my limited experience - if Paco had never been born, Manolo Sanlucar would have been the man (assuming there were not comparable Paco's born). And yeah, of course Sanlucar was probably influenced by Paco - but of all the flamenco guitarists, I'd say he went outside the box of flamenco tradition in a way to make it more accessible to non-natives.



rombsix -> RE: What if Paco... (Dec. 28 2023 13:44:23)

quote:

That was actually pretty funny.


Maestro Stubbs in da hiz-ouse! [:D] (wasn't aware you were on here)



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